OE Tire Question

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The Critic

The Critic

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CapriRacer has posted numerous times that OE tires are built according to specs given by the vehicle manufacturer. In other words, one can make a case that the tire is essentially designed by the vehicle manufacturer, not the tire manufacturer.

Therefore, how does the tire manufacturer/supplier decide what model name to give an OE tire?

For instance, the OE tires on my Nissan are the Turanza EL400. Bridgestone has an "OE" Turanza EL400 and an aftermarket version, I believe.

So, what made Bridgestone choose the Turanza EL400 model name for the OE tires on my vehicle, as opposed to naming the OE tire for my vehicle by another existing model-- such as "Turanza Serenity?"

I have one theory--is it because OE tires are slightly altered versions of an existing tire in a tire manufacturer's line-up? If so, it would make sense to name an OE tire for a particular application the same name as an existing tire in that manufacturer's line-up if the OE tire has significant similarities with the aftermarket version.

Does anyone know?

Thanks.
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic
.........Therefore, how does the tire manufacturer/supplier decide what model name to give an OE tire?........I have one theory--is it because OE tires are slightly altered versions of an existing tire in a tire manufacturer's line-up?.......Does anyone know?


Yes, I know. It is exactly as you described!

The one exception is that many times, the entire line of tires has been designated as an "OE" line of tires - meaning even before the first tire is supplied to a vehicle manufacturer, the tire manufacturer has set that line aside for OE and has built into the design the things they know an OE will want to have.
 
I wonder if it means tire makers shoot themselves in the foot though. Like when you get a new printer and it has a "starter" cartridge that only prints a few pages, then the price of a "real" one comes as a shock.

Treadwear ratings would be a good place to start when comparing OE to aftermarket. You may have to literally read them off the sidewall of a new car on the lot as finding that spec may be difficult or muddled by the aftermarket rubber.
 
Simple: a lot of people (my dad and my former boss) just don't want headache and ask the tire shop to order the EXACT SAME TIRE and mount it, good or bad.

So the tire manufacture will label the OEM tires with the tire they sell the most for this size/market because they are getting almost free marketing this way.
 
OE tires are not "always" something that was made originally/just for a car mfg nor are they always different( i.e. quality and/or construction )when compared to the same tire model from the aftermarket. At least truck and SUV tires anyway. A lot of OE tires are specially made for the car mfg and they usually stink compared to something you get aftermarket( even from the same mfg ). However, you can get really good tires at times OE issue that are already available aftermarket that the car mfg selected for use.

Michelin LTX M+S was not a tire series made as an OE tire for Dodge Ram's yet they were OE issues on millions of Ram's( the lucky ones that didn't end up with [censored] Goodyears ). The OE LTX M+S tires that came on my Rams( 03 & 04 )were no different than the ones I would buy if I walked into a Michelin dealer off the street and asked for LTX M+S's. Same tire both times. Selected by Dodge to be used from an exisiting tire series.

The Firestone Destination LE series is another tire that this applies to. I know for a fact they were not ordered up by GM prior to 2008 for the Equinox line( my 2008 Equinox came with them which was a shock to me ). When the Equinox came out in late 04( 05 Model )they came with Bridgestone Dueler HT's and did so through 2007 exclusively. The Destination LE wasn't even around then( I am pretty sure - maybe just out ). 08 was the 1st year for the Destination LE to be offered on the Equinox( optional tire - the HT's still main tire used )and those tires had already been out in previous years as I bought them for other vehicles. As with the LTX M+S tires there is no difference between the OE issued LE's and the ones I would get from the Firestone dealer. GM picked those tires for use from an exisiting tire line in the size they needed/wanted.

I am not saying the OP's theory does not apply to some tires. Sure it does. However, just pointing out it is not a blanket yes across the board. Some tires are actually selected for use from exisiting tires already out there. I know some truck mfg's actually started offering Bridgestone Dueler AT Revos as optional tires when ordering the truck. Again, an exisiting tire that is the same as the aftermarket version. I have seen BF Goodrich All Terrain T/A KO tires come OE as well.

The Revo and BFG T/A KO's are 2 of the best and most popular aftermarket AT tires for truck owners available. Both have been OE issue at times. So it does happen.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
OE tires are not "always" something that was made originally/just for a car mfg nor are they always different( i.e. quality and/or construction )when compared to the same tire model from the aftermarket. At least truck and SUV tires anyway. A lot of OE tires are specially made for the car mfg and they usually stink compared to something you get aftermarket( even from the same mfg ). However, you can get really good tires at times OE issue that are already available aftermarket that the car mfg selected for use.........


I truncated the post to shorten the size of this post, but I'm responding to the entire post, not just that paragraph.

NHHemi,

I'm sorry, but you are mistaken.

While it is true that sometimes a line of tires will exist before they appear as OE on a vehicle, they are nearly 100% of the time altered in some way during the qualification process. Vehicle manufacturers feel that since they buy ten of thousands (and sometimes hundreds of thousands) of the same tire, they ought to be able to decide what that tire is supposed to do. They do not shop the market to see what is available.

Usually what happens is that a vehicle manufacturer will issue a specification to their tire suppliers, and the tire manufacturer will decide what tread pattern to use. It is much easier to use an existing pattern rather than create a new one - saves having to buy a new mold. Then a whole series of tests takes place - with changes along the way. Sometimes this requires a new mold, sometimes not.

But it is so very, very rare for an OEM to use an existing tire right off the shelf. I know of only 1 case in the literally hundreds of tires that I have knowledge about.
 
Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
Could you share that one case with us?...


When I was writing this:

http://www.barrystiretech.com/oetires.html

I called a colleague in Detroit to get some help. In particular, I wanted a copy of the "Spec" sheet to display on the web page. If you read the page, you'll see a comment about "confidentiality agreements" - and that was the result of that conversation.

At the same time, I reviewed some things I was a little unsure about since I only dealt with a single vehicle manufacturer. I wanted to be sure I was stating things that were factual and not just peculiar to one OEM. In particular I wanted to confirm the statement that ALL OE tires go through a long qualification process and are NEVER off the shelf items. He told me that there was one case where that was not true.

I'm a little fuzzy on the details - and, of course, there are some details I can not reveal. But it involved an Asian vehicle manufacturer who was in a hurry, but I don't know why he was in a hurry. He had such a short lead time that the only thing he could do was ask for something off the shelf, then order molds.

- Side Note - Molds are a pretty expensive capital investment on a per tire basis. They only last a few years before they need to be replaced or refurbished. It takes about 6 months to get all the molds needed to produce tires in the quantities needed to supply an assembly plant - many more molds than are needed to produce tires for the open market.

The first molds that arrive are put into production very quickly to build an initial inventory and as more molds arrive, they are also put into production. This initial inventory is important because there are pre-production builds of vehicles and ALL the parts for those pre-production vehicles have to be the exact part that is planned to be used. Needless to say, this causes all kinds of weird and unusual things to happen. Overnight shipments - close but not quite finish quality - functional equivalents - etc.

The point of the side note is that even though there may be 6 months before the first production vehicle leaves the assembly line, the parameters of the mold design have to be frozen in order to order molds. Once that happens, those parameters that are controlled by the mold can not be changed.

Back to the story.

That vehicle manufacturer was given a set of tires that were existing in the replacement market - off the shelf. I assume he did the same thing with the other tire manufacturers. I can't recall, but strongly suspect a quick ride and handling evaluation took place - (Ride engineers can do about 3 evaluations a day.) - and a choice was made.

In the back of my mind, I half-remember that even then, the ride engineers wanted some changes - some of which could not be accomodated, some of which could - so I think that the tire that was eventually produced was not exactly "off-the-shelf".
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
OE tires are not "always" something that was made originally/just for a car mfg nor are they always different( i.e. quality and/or construction )when compared to the same tire model from the aftermarket. At least truck and SUV tires anyway. A lot of OE tires are specially made for the car mfg and they usually stink compared to something you get aftermarket( even from the same mfg ). However, you can get really good tires at times OE issue that are already available aftermarket that the car mfg selected for use.........


I truncated the post to shorten the size of this post, but I'm responding to the entire post, not just that paragraph.

NHHemi,

I'm sorry, but you are mistaken.

While it is true that sometimes a line of tires will exist before they appear as OE on a vehicle, they are nearly 100% of the time altered in some way during the qualification process. Vehicle manufacturers feel that since they buy ten of thousands (and sometimes hundreds of thousands) of the same tire, they ought to be able to decide what that tire is supposed to do. They do not shop the market to see what is available.

Usually what happens is that a vehicle manufacturer will issue a specification to their tire suppliers, and the tire manufacturer will decide what tread pattern to use. It is much easier to use an existing pattern rather than create a new one - saves having to buy a new mold. Then a whole series of tests takes place - with changes along the way. Sometimes this requires a new mold, sometimes not.

But it is so very, very rare for an OEM to use an existing tire right off the shelf. I know of only 1 case in the literally hundreds of tires that I have knowledge about.


You are entitled to your opinion.
 
I don't know why the manufacturers just don't chunk it all for simplicity...

There seems to be considerably more "diversity" with the tires at GM for the 2011 model year, and many of them are very, very similar to popular aftermarket tires... such as Transport HT, Grabber HTS, Destination, Michelin Primacy, etc.

I was shocked to see them switch over to such a highly rated aftermarket tire such as the Grabber HTS on Silverado 1500's. For years, GM has slapped horrible tires from General on many of the 1500's as stock rubber. They even have used a "B" traction rated Bridgestone on 4x4 pickups. HUH?

My Silverado came factory with P255/70R-16 General Ameritrac's, which were replaced by the dealer at 3500 miles.

Yes, they were THAT bad.
 
OMG! Reminded me of the 05 Silverado I bought with 265/70/17 Generals.

Some of the WORST OE tires I have ever owned.

I am with NHHemi on this one. It's obvious that many times they do use an over the counter tire.

I would strongly argue it's mostly about costs.
 
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI

You are entitled to your opinion.

CapriRacer is an engineer for a major tire manufacturer. While I would consider many posts on here to be opinion, his posts are almost entirely fact, and this one is no exception. Not trying to be rude, but I think you should take CapriRacer's post a bit more seriously in that it probably is correct, even if some of the things he mentions may not have been obvious from your experience.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
OMG! Reminded me of the 05 Silverado I bought with 265/70/17 Generals.

Some of the WORST OE tires I have ever owned.


I'm sure that my dealer took the tires off of my truck, and stacked them in the corner.

Then they put my Ameritracs on the next Silverado or Sierra that was traded in, which needed a set of tires before they parked it out on the used lot.

The new tires that they put on my truck was the one that they would typically install on trade ins. It was a small price for them to pay to get the complaints to stop. They were out nothing, as I'm sure they billed GM for labor.

**********************

The OE Goodyear Conquest tires on Mom's Park Avenue were on the car from '99 (new) until late 2007. They had well over 50,000 miles on them when we finally pulled them off.

They still had 4/32" of tread left, but age had left the rubber 'hard' and they had little snow traction left. It was time for a new set before winter.

They didn't compare to the Goodyear Assurance ComforTred's that replaced them, but I didn't expect them to.
 
I don't think OE would just use off the shelf tire unless those tires were intended to be OE first and sell in the after market as "surplus and also run" to capture the customers that want "the exact same tires" as they have on the cars.

For example I'd say the entire Goodyear Integrity/Invicta/Eagle RSA line of tires are merely OE, that priority is with fuel economy, cost, quiet, comfort, handling, etc in that order, but in the after market, even in the same tire, they de-emphasis fuel economy and cost but emphasis traction, comfort and durability / tread wear instead.

I'd imagine also a lot of OE tire spend more $ on quality / softer rubber on the top 2/32" and harder, lower traction rubber on the bottom 8/32", so it can get lower rolling resistance (less flex) but still good traction for the test drive. They probably would do a more uniform material layout for the after market so the feel is more consistent, and when people buy new tires, they wouldn't be angry and agitated about the ride that they swear off the entire brand.
 
If you read through Capri's posts, he's not some guy who has owned a dozen cars so he thinks he knows everything there is to know. He actually has experience outside his personal vehicle ownership and a unique (to this site) tire-related job and therefore a better view into tires than others here.

A tire could look identical, have the same treadwear rating, but be made to have worse traction and better rolling resistance. How would anyone besides those directly involved ever know? Do you honestly think Dodge ordered a million tires per year for half a decade and wanted no input besides "these are fine".
 
I have more than just car ownership experience. I have worked in the auto field( aftermarket and dealer )and have dealt with tire mfg's on tires. I have contacted tire mfg's for my own personal knowledge on some things and for work related issues on others.

I will take a back seat to the other gentleman on 99.9% of things tire related. I do not profess to be a tire genius. BUT on this issue I am simply stating what I have learned and that is at times mfg's will use a tire not designed specifically for or by them. I gave some examples. It may not be common place but it is not unheard of.

Others can disagree/disbelieve. Not a big deal to me.
 
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