Octane vs mpg again...

AZjeff

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Brother in law has a 2021 Silverado 2500HD with the 6.6 gas motor and tows a 32' fifth wheel with a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. No idea what his actual weight is. He said was averaging 7.1 mpg towing in NW Pa. on 87. He decided to try 93 since this is a 10:1 engine and he had to run 93 in his 10:1 stock car motors BITD. He claims his towing mpg is now 8.6, a 21% increase and the truck runs better. Not getting into a YOU CALLING ME A LIAR? situation with BIL but that seems like an amazing improvement. 87 is specified by GM.
 
He might not be lying, but he's either confused or not giving/doesn't have all the information, lol
 
If the 93 was actual petrol and the 87 was ethanol, that would help explain some of the boost, too.

I've played with 87, 87/89 non ethanol, and 92/93 non-ethanol and tried to note gains. I can't recall the exact numbers now and don't recall if I wrote it down. 92 non-ethanol sure was a lot more fun and did boost mpg, but I just can't recall how much but it was more like 10% or slightly less overall gain. It was less than the added cost of the gasoline 92 non-eth vs. 87 eth. (e.g, there was no net economic gain from it - the added cost of the gas was more than the bump in mpg). This is just a passenger car, not truck or towing.
 
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Brother in law has a 2021 Silverado 2500HD with the 6.6 gas motor and tows a 32' fifth wheel with a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. No idea what his actual weight is. He said was averaging 7.1 mpg towing in NW Pa. on 87. He decided to try 93 since this is a 10:1 engine and he had to run 93 in his 10:1 stock car motors BITD. He claims his towing mpg is now 8.6, a 21% increase and the truck runs better. Not getting into a YOU CALLING ME A LIAR? situation with BIL but that seems like an amazing improvement. 87 is specified by GM.
I believe it. I run all 3 of my vehicles on 91 Premium. I'm averaging over 19 MPG on my 5.7 HEMI around town, and 21+ on the highway. My 2.5 Toyota 4 banger stays right around 38-40 MPG around town, 42+ on the highway.

And my older 5.0 V-8 Ford will knock like crazy out here in the heat without it. Do I "need" to run it? Only in the Ford. But both of the newer cars run far better, and deliver better mileage with 91. And I have no doubt they would run even better with 93.

Higher octane fuel allows far more spark advance without knocking, which helps improve mileage.... Especially towing with a heavy vehicle in hot temperatures. So yeah, I don't doubt his claims one bit.
 
Higher octane fuel allows far more spark advance without knocking, which helps improve mileage.... Especially towing with a heavy vehicle in hot temperatures. So yeah, I don't doubt his claims one bit.

This, and it is not super uncommon for 93 pumps to be E0 instead of E10. I'd try it (87) just for giggles with my Ranger, but I'm not super hip on towing as heavy as I do on 87 octane and a turbo.
 
This, and it is not super uncommon for 93 pumps to be E0 instead of E10. I'd try it (87) just for giggles with my Ranger, but I'm not super hip on towing as heavy as I do on 87 octane and a turbo.
I can get 93 Octane E0 Marine Fuel here, but it's expensive as hell. However, I do run all of my generators and small gas engines on it.
 
[Quote-AZjeff]: "He claims his towing mpg is now 8.6, a 21% increase and the truck runs better."

I believe your BIL however it is an improvement ONLY If your BIL is paying L3$$ than 21% for premium fuel. I do believe that your BIL's engine runs better on the higher octane but at what cost? 🤷‍♂️

I have never gotten better MPG with higher octane fuel in my DD's and if I did, it was not at the same cost % over regular 87 octane. And I have never noticed a better throttle response...If I did, it was like; Hmmm, did I actually feel that ?

The Firebird V8 in my signature can often get slightly better MPG on 91-93 octane(and feel a tiny bit more responsive) compared to 87 octane but, it's not much...Maybe ~14% better MPT but it cost me ~30% more at the pump.

The ol' V8 engine runs slightly more responsive under certain throttle imput(s) however, I am the only one who notices it.
 
Brother in law has a 2021 Silverado 2500HD with the 6.6 gas motor and tows a 32' fifth wheel with a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. No idea what his actual weight is. He said was averaging 7.1 mpg towing in NW Pa. on 87. He decided to try 93 since this is a 10:1 engine and he had to run 93 in his 10:1 stock car motors BITD. He claims his towing mpg is now 8.6, a 21% increase and the truck runs better. Not getting into a YOU CALLING ME A LIAR? situation with BIL but that seems like an amazing improvement. 87 is specified by GM.
Certainly believable IMHO. If the 87 octane is resulting in constant KR while towing, and the 93 mitigates that, the difference in available HP/TQ would be significant. Get him to generate some datalogs that show KR while running each octane, that will show how much good the 93 is doing versus the 87.
 
[Quote-AZjeff]: "He claims his towing mpg is now 8.6, a 21% increase and the truck runs better."

I believe your BIL however it is an improvement ONLY If your BIL is paying L3$$ than 21% for premium fuel. I do believe that your BIL's engine runs better on the higher octane but at what cost?

Your point is valid, and I somewhat agree. But you also have to consider what having the higher performance engine costs as well. For example, the HEMI option in my Jeep, over the standard Penstar V-6 was an additional $3200.00 and change.

So it seems pointless to pay that much more for a high performance V-8, only to turn around and pinch pennies by running it on 87. Which it will, but as the manual states, "with a reduced level of performance".

Most all of the newer engines are set up this way. And many are running very high compression. My Toyota runs a 13:1 compression. Yeah, it's an Atkinson Cycle, so it is capable of running a lot less. But for best mileage and performance it still pays to run 91, or even 93. Especially if I'm getting over 40 MPG doing it.

The 5.7 Hemi runs 10.5:1. So in order to achieve the best performance and mileage, running at least 91 is the way to go. Also to be considered in my case with being retired, is that I drive very little. So the slightly additional fuel cost isn't really much of an issue.

If I had a 50 mile commute each way daily, then it might be a different story. But in all honesty if I did, I most likely wouldn't have purchased the V-8 in the first place. (Although the Penstar V-6 isn't the greatest when it comes to fuel economy).
 
I can get 93 Octane E0 Marine Fuel here, but it's expensive as hell. However, I do run all of my generators and small gas engines on it.
There are several Shell stations around here where the 93 is E0. Not sure why, and it's not all of them. Strangely I've never gone by and filled up at any of them since they're way out of my way. But I have seen a several MPG increase on an occasional fillup at a station that isn't my regular stop. I suspect they do it as well.

I don't get too particular about it, I suppose I could do some research and try to get E0, but...I'm lazy.

Now, I will sometimes fill up the Acura with E0 Rec 90 which I can get right down the street. Sometimes it is price competitive with 89/93, and sometimes I just do it for the giggles. I do see a bump with it, but not enough to make it anything more than an experiment.

My Ranger will run on 87, but the manual tells you to use premium for towing, although I've heard of people pulling with 87 in the tank. Not really a risk I want to take with as heavy as I pull, and as hard as that motor works. Last thing I want it to do is pulling timing or knocking on 87.

This winter, when we're not camping, I'll probably drop down to 89 since I won't be stressing the truck near as much, and the temps will be cooler.
 
More octane, less knocking risk.
Ecu then can improve timing, it gives a bit more power.
That means, if you need 100hp to keep the speed, then you should consume a bit less fuel.
Because you get "more power per octane", in a very simplistic way.
Ecu's are every second balancing on edge of detonation, squeezing max from fuel. (Reason why knock sensor.)

My car has 11:1 cr. Running less power dense propane fuel, but with way higher octane, gives better nvh and good consumption. Old cars were terrible on propane.
 
Your point is valid, and I somewhat agree. But you also have to consider what having the higher performance engine costs as well. For example, the HEMI option in my Jeep, over the standard Penstar V-6 was an additional $3200.00 and change.

So it seems pointless to pay that much more for a high performance V-8, only to turn around and pinch pennies by running it on 87. Which it will, but as the manual states, "with a reduced level of performance".

Most all of the newer engines are set up this way. And many are running very high compression. My Toyota runs a 13:1 compression. Yeah, it's an Atkinson Cycle, so it is capable of running a lot less. But for best mileage and performance it still pays to run 91, or even 93. Especially if I'm getting over 40 MPG doing it.

The 5.7 Hemi runs 10.5:1. So in order to achieve the best performance and mileage, running at least 91 is the way to go. Also to be considered in my case with being retired, is that I drive very little. So the slightly additional fuel cost isn't really much of an issue.

If I had a 50 mile commute each way daily, then it might be a different story. But in all honesty if I did, I most likely wouldn't have purchased the V-8 in the first place. (Although the Penstar V-6 isn't the greatest when it comes to fuel economy).
I agree with you as well.(y)
However the OPs BIL's Silverado is only spec'd for a minimum of 87 octane. And I do agree that he needs to run the octane that makes him sleep at night regardless of the value proposition of the fuel. ;)
 
I run my Hemi on 87 except when I pull our 5th wheel. Then I run 93. It gets 10.5 to 11 when pulling out 5th wheel. I am pleased since when we had a class A it only got 7.5 to 8 maybe with a tail wind. With this I get to campground and still have a vehicle to run around with. Love my Andersen hitch.
 
If your motor is running a 10:1 compression ratio or higher you should run a higher octane than 87. The motor should run and perform better .
 
I believe your BIL. Our 07 Yukon Denali w/6.2L w/VVT wo/AFM gets 15-20% better gas mileage on premium vs regular. GM recommends premium and over the yrs I have experimented w/regular and mid-grade.
 
Unless someone has hand-calcuated data over a full tank multiple times with both fuels, I don't give much weight to this b/c it's likely coming from the dash readout. Now that being said, higher octane should give more power when towing so *maybe*. Unless you log the timing/timing correctin/knock, you really don't know how the engine is managing the different fuels.
 
I believe it. I run all 3 of my vehicles on 91 Premium. I'm averaging over 19 MPG on my 5.7 HEMI around town, and 21+ on the highway. My 2.5 Toyota 4 banger stays right around 38-40 MPG around town, 42+ on the highway.

Bill, do you have enough miles using 87 to know what your mpg gain is using 91 in the Jeep and Camry?
 
Bill, do you have enough miles using 87 to know what your mpg gain is using 91 in the Jeep and Camry?
I doubt it. I know my Jeep came with a tankful of 87. After reading the manual, and talking with people on the Jeep forum, I filled it with 91 the next tankful, and noticed the MPG started creeping up.

And the performance was better and more responsive. It was much the same with the Camry. But I would have to switch back to 87 and do a direct comparison to give you solid numbers.
 
Just curious if you knew. Don't want you putting cheap stuff in your vehicles to find out. ;)

BIL has me curious. 93 is 11% more than 87 right now here and he's saying he's getting 20% better mileage. I've searched around a bit online and can't find anyone documenting that kind of difference. Lots of anecdotal seat of pants observations but no pen on paper hard numbers. I have the same truck and tow a lighter travel trailer. With his numbers I would have saved $90 in gas on this trip we just did by using 93.
 
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