OCI for Trans
- Thread starter beadvised
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52k? if you want you can do a drain and fill and should be good until 100k or thereabouts before another round ?
Note: I normally do not perform regular OCI on trannine unless (a) the trannie fluid looks and smells burnt, or (b) vehicle is known to suffer from trannie premature failure or a combo of both.
replaced factory WS3309 on my wifey's camry 4 yrs ago with full-syn PC duradrive MV ATF and I shall anticipate another good, consistent service from it for another 100k... or until I have to consider rebuilding CV boots and have to drain the trannie for that.
Q.
Note: I normally do not perform regular OCI on trannine unless (a) the trannie fluid looks and smells burnt, or (b) vehicle is known to suffer from trannie premature failure or a combo of both.
replaced factory WS3309 on my wifey's camry 4 yrs ago with full-syn PC duradrive MV ATF and I shall anticipate another good, consistent service from it for another 100k... or until I have to consider rebuilding CV boots and have to drain the trannie for that.
Q.
You could do a UOA to see how its doing.
Install a Magnefine inline filter would be a well worth $20 spent.
Doing a drain and fill will "freshen up" the ATF.
A complete exchange for Amsoil ATF would be the best.
Install a Magnefine inline filter would be a well worth $20 spent.
Doing a drain and fill will "freshen up" the ATF.
A complete exchange for Amsoil ATF would be the best.
Do a full flush or swap of fluid at 60k and drain and fills every 30k thereafter.
Drain and fill every 30k/3yr
^^ yep ^^
Originally Posted By: randomhero439
Drain and fill every 30k/3yr
+2. Especially if you want it to last, which is quite possible.
Drain and fill every 30k/3yr
+2. Especially if you want it to last, which is quite possible.
^^
These would be wasting a lot of ATF and labor more than likely. The best overall course is a really early change (or the installation of a cooler line filter) to get rid of the built-in/break-in contamination followed by full changes as indicated. Minimum 30K for a hard worked trans. Could be lots longer... 60-100K. Would depend on how the vehicle is used (city w/lots of cycles sooner than highway with fewer), the trans (some transmissions are harder on oil or notorious for working the oil hard), and the oil used (some oils hold up better than others).
A couple of UOAs would tell a lot. Change now because it still has the highly contaminated break-in oil... I am presuming it's never been changed; run it 30K... UOA via a suction gun and take it from there. If good, go longer. If not, change. Or change when appropriate and from there you have a general idea of a good interval. Remember, a trans generates some 75 % of it's lifetime amount of wear contaminants in the first 5K of operation (built in manufacturing junk + break-in).
Heck, once that initial OC is done to get rid of the highly contaminated FF oil, you can pretty much go by color. Then, simply change when it's significantly darkened a fair bit (save a small new sample in a small vial for comparison).
These would be wasting a lot of ATF and labor more than likely. The best overall course is a really early change (or the installation of a cooler line filter) to get rid of the built-in/break-in contamination followed by full changes as indicated. Minimum 30K for a hard worked trans. Could be lots longer... 60-100K. Would depend on how the vehicle is used (city w/lots of cycles sooner than highway with fewer), the trans (some transmissions are harder on oil or notorious for working the oil hard), and the oil used (some oils hold up better than others).
A couple of UOAs would tell a lot. Change now because it still has the highly contaminated break-in oil... I am presuming it's never been changed; run it 30K... UOA via a suction gun and take it from there. If good, go longer. If not, change. Or change when appropriate and from there you have a general idea of a good interval. Remember, a trans generates some 75 % of it's lifetime amount of wear contaminants in the first 5K of operation (built in manufacturing junk + break-in).
Heck, once that initial OC is done to get rid of the highly contaminated FF oil, you can pretty much go by color. Then, simply change when it's significantly darkened a fair bit (save a small new sample in a small vial for comparison).
Originally Posted By: beadvised
I do not have the owners manual currently. Called dealership and they said every 60k with new filter, ATF+4, and black RTV
I've owned many dodge/jeeps and agree with the dealer. unless you tow, I'd change it every 50-60k. and you MUST use ATF+4. period. pretty much any color rtv should work.
I do not have the owners manual currently. Called dealership and they said every 60k with new filter, ATF+4, and black RTV
I've owned many dodge/jeeps and agree with the dealer. unless you tow, I'd change it every 50-60k. and you MUST use ATF+4. period. pretty much any color rtv should work.
I'd do a pan drop and fluid and filter change then do another again at 100k. The rubber gasket that comes with the filter kit is easier to work with than RTV and easier next time around when you drop the pan again. It doesn't hurt to do it a little more often on these vans since this was known as a weak point on them. I installed the aftermarket Dorman pan on mine that has a built in drain plug so I can do periodic drain and fills between filter changes. The trans will take between 4-5 quarts for a drain and fill and it should only cost you about $35-40 to do this service yourself.
Originally Posted By: beadvised
I do not have the owners manual currently. Called dealership and they said every 60k with new filter, ATF+4, and black RTV
Good advice....its time to change it out.
Be sure to add Lubegard Red to you ATF fluid (1 oz. per quart of ATF).
I do not have the owners manual currently. Called dealership and they said every 60k with new filter, ATF+4, and black RTV
Good advice....its time to change it out.
Be sure to add Lubegard Red to you ATF fluid (1 oz. per quart of ATF).
dnewton3
Staff member
Each tranny design is a bit different, but some generalities can be made:
1) do an early flush to be rid of the FF and it's contaminants (any time is a good time to flush the FF)
2) OEM OCIs are very safe
3) UOAs will tell you far more than any manual
OEM OCIs are basically predicated on untra-safe precautionany approaches. The OEM does not care what you and I have to spend on the OCI; they only care that they don't have to pay to fix it. Therefore they are in a position to be very liberal with our money, and very conservative with their directives. Ask yourself this: do you believe any OEM would be in favor of a 3 month - 3k mile engine OCI if they had to pay for the OCI of every single unit they produced? No; I suspect they'd take a MUCH more pragmatic approach if they had to pony up for every oil change. Same goes for trannies, diffs, xfer cases, etc.
OEM OCIs are used in lieu of more detailed information; they are a plan to follow in the absence of specific analysis. But when you have access to other tools (UOAs and PCs and such), then you can use those items to make better decisions than blind obedience to a note in a paper manual.
For example, my 1995 Villager calls for tranny OCIs every 30k miles. I had been doing that and changing the filter as called for. Then I did a UOA; the fluid was nearly pristine. I decided that I'd double the OCI and then make a decision from there; perhaps another UOA. The goal is to stretch out the OCI to a SAFE, PRACTICAL limit, where one balances the risk versus reward.
I will also note that at times, the OCI is simply cheaper than the UOA; that depends upon the unique service selected and the cost & quantity of fluid used.
So, the OEM rec's are fine, but wasteful.
Anything past that would take UOAs to find the responsible action for your unique situation.
1) do an early flush to be rid of the FF and it's contaminants (any time is a good time to flush the FF)
2) OEM OCIs are very safe
3) UOAs will tell you far more than any manual
OEM OCIs are basically predicated on untra-safe precautionany approaches. The OEM does not care what you and I have to spend on the OCI; they only care that they don't have to pay to fix it. Therefore they are in a position to be very liberal with our money, and very conservative with their directives. Ask yourself this: do you believe any OEM would be in favor of a 3 month - 3k mile engine OCI if they had to pay for the OCI of every single unit they produced? No; I suspect they'd take a MUCH more pragmatic approach if they had to pony up for every oil change. Same goes for trannies, diffs, xfer cases, etc.
OEM OCIs are used in lieu of more detailed information; they are a plan to follow in the absence of specific analysis. But when you have access to other tools (UOAs and PCs and such), then you can use those items to make better decisions than blind obedience to a note in a paper manual.
For example, my 1995 Villager calls for tranny OCIs every 30k miles. I had been doing that and changing the filter as called for. Then I did a UOA; the fluid was nearly pristine. I decided that I'd double the OCI and then make a decision from there; perhaps another UOA. The goal is to stretch out the OCI to a SAFE, PRACTICAL limit, where one balances the risk versus reward.
I will also note that at times, the OCI is simply cheaper than the UOA; that depends upon the unique service selected and the cost & quantity of fluid used.
So, the OEM rec's are fine, but wasteful.
Anything past that would take UOAs to find the responsible action for your unique situation.
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Originally Posted By: tomcat27
beadvised said:and you MUST use ATF+4. period.
This is bad advise as there are many options that provide better performance that the old ATF+4. I would use the ATF+4 as the minimum spec and only use it if something better is not available (and likely cheaper).
ATF+4 is long due for a refresh or to be merged with one of the current spec fluids.
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Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Be sure to add Lubegard Red to you ATF fluid (1 oz. per quart of ATF).
There's no need for any additives ever unless you're trying to 'fix' something or compensate for a low-quality fluid. Your advise may be harmless (aside from the $$$) but that doesn't make it good advise.
Be sure to add Lubegard Red to you ATF fluid (1 oz. per quart of ATF).
There's no need for any additives ever unless you're trying to 'fix' something or compensate for a low-quality fluid. Your advise may be harmless (aside from the $$$) but that doesn't make it good advise.
The advise from Jim Allen and dnewton3 is spot-on and top-notch. Print it out and keep it with your vehicle records as a reminder.
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