Heil Hydra!
https://youtu.be/cmqzLS8AoXo
https://youtu.be/cmqzLS8AoXo
Nt to fire point without darkening
- Thread starter Pontual
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Can anyone explain to me why Russians are obsessed with hot-knifing their motor oil?
1) I wonder what his house smells like.
2) I've heard from several people that doing a similar test with a small sample of used oil on tin foil is a test for water in oil.
The water is said to boil out with a tell-tale crackle.
Heating some in a spoon just developed over time.
Perhaps it's an homage' to preparing injectable drugs. Kira
2) I've heard from several people that doing a similar test with a small sample of used oil on tin foil is a test for water in oil.
The water is said to boil out with a tell-tale crackle.
Heating some in a spoon just developed over time.
Perhaps it's an homage' to preparing injectable drugs. Kira
Could it be they feel this test better relates to the actual operating temps found inside the engine? The piston ring area can get well over 400f and this is where most burned on hard to remove deposits form.
When people talk about oil temperature they are usually only referring to the bulk oil temp in the pan, but the oil contacting the ring area is only a small amount and it is being subjected to much higher temps, could this make their hot test more valid?
I have no idea really just questions.
Edit: I was reading this, its a little old but still interesting.
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a230136.pdf
When people talk about oil temperature they are usually only referring to the bulk oil temp in the pan, but the oil contacting the ring area is only a small amount and it is being subjected to much higher temps, could this make their hot test more valid?
I have no idea really just questions.
Edit: I was reading this, its a little old but still interesting.
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a230136.pdf
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At least One thinker here!
As I said before, when you shut the engine down, the oil in the ring pack and turbo bearings, isnt renowed and the spoon represents it, pretty well. Noak only measure oil loss by volatility and the heat show us also the darkening from oxidation. I already did this testings with Mineral oils and Synthetics too, and always got darker oil and residues from it. The sample in the video show a higher resilience than most oils I ever saw.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Can anyone explain to me why Russians are obsessed with hot-knifing their motor oil?
Can't answer for all of them, but the guy in the video is speaking about how clean things stayed and how it barely got any darker after heating it. Probably just wants to see how much it oxidizes with heat.
Can anyone explain to me why Russians are obsessed with hot-knifing their motor oil?
Can't answer for all of them, but the guy in the video is speaking about how clean things stayed and how it barely got any darker after heating it. Probably just wants to see how much it oxidizes with heat.
Originally Posted By: Pontual
As I said before, when you shut the engine down, the oil in the ring pack and turbo bearings, isnt renowed and the spoon represents it, pretty well. Noak only measure oil loss by volatility and the heat show us also the darkening from oxidation. I already did this testings with Mineral oils and Synthetics too, and always got darker oil and residues from it. The sample in the video show a higher resilience than most oils I ever saw.
Given that some additives darken anyway, and you aren't measuring or controlling anything, what exactly do you learn ?
Is the darkening additives or deposits ?
As I've said before on your ring pack theory, as soon as you shut off, there's no more "raging fires" above the piston adding to the heat, it's residual that will make it's way into the cooling system relatively quickly.
Another point is that the residence time in the ring belt in a running engine is tens of seconds, that's almost forever at 250C in the presence of reactive blowby gasses, so worrying about the thermal soaking after shutdown is worrying about a lesser set of conditions.
Anyway, there's an ACTUAL test, with ACTUAL controls for worrying about piston deposits.
http://www.savantlab.com/images/Q1_2014_TEOST_Technical_Brief.pdf
As I said before, when you shut the engine down, the oil in the ring pack and turbo bearings, isnt renowed and the spoon represents it, pretty well. Noak only measure oil loss by volatility and the heat show us also the darkening from oxidation. I already did this testings with Mineral oils and Synthetics too, and always got darker oil and residues from it. The sample in the video show a higher resilience than most oils I ever saw.
Given that some additives darken anyway, and you aren't measuring or controlling anything, what exactly do you learn ?
Is the darkening additives or deposits ?
As I've said before on your ring pack theory, as soon as you shut off, there's no more "raging fires" above the piston adding to the heat, it's residual that will make it's way into the cooling system relatively quickly.
Another point is that the residence time in the ring belt in a running engine is tens of seconds, that's almost forever at 250C in the presence of reactive blowby gasses, so worrying about the thermal soaking after shutdown is worrying about a lesser set of conditions.
Anyway, there's an ACTUAL test, with ACTUAL controls for worrying about piston deposits.
http://www.savantlab.com/images/Q1_2014_TEOST_Technical_Brief.pdf
I learnt the not darkening. Dont try to complicate whats evident, Shannow. I know the Teost33C is a Lab test, not an engine test, but the this paper is a good one. Is there a better form to bitogers compare amostrages (samples) is their personal labs or even houses? I have a full experiment cosmetics lab at my disposal, that I could run a bunch of test, but most dont.
Please, Explain this additives getting dark in a spoon experiment... with ones will get dark besides the base oil. Looks like This GTL has a pretty fine add pack then!
Please, Explain this additives getting dark in a spoon experiment... with ones will get dark besides the base oil. Looks like This GTL has a pretty fine add pack then!
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Originally Posted By: Pontual
Noak only measure oil loss by volatility and the heat show us also the darkening from oxidation.
Hmmm. I don't need to subject motor oil to a flame to know that doing so will oxidize and darken it.
137_Trenton: Well, my point mainly was that if you find ten examples of this experiment online, at least nine of them will be done in Russia.
Trav: Maybe such testing might make some sense where one doesn't trust the oil available or the specifications it might meet. Personally, I don't have any fears about how the majors will perform in virtually any prescribed application.
Of course, there are exceptions, and I imagine you've seen more than a few messes in your day. The only mess I really had from coking was the Audi 200 Turbo, but that's what happens when you call for SJ conventional for a 12,500 km severe service interval in a turbo application. For it, hot-knifing might have helped, but a more sensible oil selection based upon specifications alone would have been sufficient, without stinking up the kitchen.
Noak only measure oil loss by volatility and the heat show us also the darkening from oxidation.
Hmmm. I don't need to subject motor oil to a flame to know that doing so will oxidize and darken it.
137_Trenton: Well, my point mainly was that if you find ten examples of this experiment online, at least nine of them will be done in Russia.
Trav: Maybe such testing might make some sense where one doesn't trust the oil available or the specifications it might meet. Personally, I don't have any fears about how the majors will perform in virtually any prescribed application.
Of course, there are exceptions, and I imagine you've seen more than a few messes in your day. The only mess I really had from coking was the Audi 200 Turbo, but that's what happens when you call for SJ conventional for a 12,500 km severe service interval in a turbo application. For it, hot-knifing might have helped, but a more sensible oil selection based upon specifications alone would have been sufficient, without stinking up the kitchen.
Originally Posted By: Kira
The water is said to boil out with a tell-tale crackle.
About the water boiling...
I once attempted to do an oil change on a Pontiac Montana. I removed the dipstick to check the oil level, and I was greeted with chocolate milkshake on the stick.
I removed the oil fill cap and I was taken aback by what I saw... The oil was "boiling" like water under the valve cover. I looked at it for a second and tried to determine what was going on. From what I gather (after thinking about what most likely happened), the intake manifold gasket must have failed and allowed coolant into the oil as well as allow the engine to overheat and boil the emulsion like water in a frying pan. It was such a bizarre thing to look in and see that inside the engine...
The water is said to boil out with a tell-tale crackle.
About the water boiling...
I once attempted to do an oil change on a Pontiac Montana. I removed the dipstick to check the oil level, and I was greeted with chocolate milkshake on the stick.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Trav: Maybe such testing might make some sense where one doesn't trust the oil available or the specifications it might meet. Personally, I don't have any fears about how the majors will perform in virtually any prescribed application.
Of course, there are exceptions, and I imagine you've seen more than a few messes in your day. The only mess I really had from coking was the Audi 200 Turbo, but that's what happens when you call for SJ conventional for a 12,500 km severe service interval in a turbo application. For it, hot-knifing might have helped, but a more sensible oil selection based upon specifications alone would have been sufficient, without stinking up the kitchen.
True you don't see much coking in the ring area today, in fact I see modern oils actually removing them in everyday street engines.
Trav: Maybe such testing might make some sense where one doesn't trust the oil available or the specifications it might meet. Personally, I don't have any fears about how the majors will perform in virtually any prescribed application.
Of course, there are exceptions, and I imagine you've seen more than a few messes in your day. The only mess I really had from coking was the Audi 200 Turbo, but that's what happens when you call for SJ conventional for a 12,500 km severe service interval in a turbo application. For it, hot-knifing might have helped, but a more sensible oil selection based upon specifications alone would have been sufficient, without stinking up the kitchen.
True you don't see much coking in the ring area today, in fact I see modern oils actually removing them in everyday street engines.
Yes but you can compare with one will be darker than the other. Curious people are good, believers dont weight in much.
Originally Posted By: Garak
137_Trenton: Well, my point mainly was that if you find ten examples of this experiment online, at least nine of them will be done in Russia.
Maybe it has something to do with that clear beverage, which makes people do questionable things when consumed in copious amounts, that is extremely popular over in that part of the world
137_Trenton: Well, my point mainly was that if you find ten examples of this experiment online, at least nine of them will be done in Russia.
Maybe it has something to do with that clear beverage, which makes people do questionable things when consumed in copious amounts, that is extremely popular over in that part of the world
Clear liquor and dark oil make for a fun evening, I suppose.
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