This is not the same thing. You can sell two identical products, different labels and different prices as long as you don't advertise one as being better etc. XM is being sued for claiming better performance from identical products, different labels and prices.
Not the same: Chevron Supreme and Havoline
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Good point, Vetteman. I did find the lawsuit against XOM--and the fact that they are apparently settling it--interesting...
Many here at BITOG had long believed that SuperFlo and Mobil Drive Clean were the same oils. This kind of confirms it.
Dan
Many here at BITOG had long believed that SuperFlo and Mobil Drive Clean were the same oils. This kind of confirms it.
Dan
Michael Wan is referring to the Robinson-Patman act, which makes it unlawful to discriminate in price for identical products sold to different customers. There are plenty of ways around this act for most products (volume discounts, guarantees, service/support, styling/colors of consumer products, etc.) but just packaging it in a different bottle and selling it at a higher price would likely trigger a lawsuit.
Surprise, surprise. We get a half-baked answer from a 'customer service rep' working for a major oil company.
I repeat my challenge: If anyone ever gets useful AND ACCURATE information from dialing an 800 number directing them to the customer service department of a major petro-chemical concern, please post it here so I can print it out and have it framed!!!
--- Bror Jace
I repeat my challenge: If anyone ever gets useful AND ACCURATE information from dialing an 800 number directing them to the customer service department of a major petro-chemical concern, please post it here so I can print it out and have it framed!!!
--- Bror Jace
pscholte:
that was funny
Think of Supreme as the generic version of Havoline. You get an identical product for less $$..
Btw, Havoline is available pretty much everywhere here in LA, but declined to get some due to it's "name brand" overpricing over Supreme.
[ November 14, 2005, 03:44 AM: Message edited by: vwoom ]
Btw, Havoline is available pretty much everywhere here in LA, but declined to get some due to it's "name brand" overpricing over Supreme.
[ November 14, 2005, 03:44 AM: Message edited by: vwoom ]
Now, is answering FAQs from the general public/"customer service" really part of the job description of an R&D guy?
NOT a lawyer (thank goodness!!!) but I can Google. I read that XOM got caught too.
Robinson-Patman Act prohibits discriminations in price between purchasers of commodities of like grade and quality which are likely to result in substantial injury to competition.
***Like grade and quality.*** Price differences are not within the Act unless the goods sold to the different purchasers are of "like grade and quality." This requirement relates solely to the physical characteristics of the goods. Are they sufficiently alike for the law to require that their pricing be identical? Stated conversely, is there a significant commercial difference in the physical characteristics of the goods to justify a price differential? The fact that identical goods may be sold under differing brands and may have varying degrees of customer acceptance is beside the point at this stage of the inquiry. If the goods are fundamentally alike in physical and chemical composition, they are of like grade and quality.
For insomniacs ... read: http://profs.lp.findlaw.com/antitrust/antitrust_7.html
Beleive what you want of course [Oil Companies are "evil" after all >...]; but in this at least case it is 100% true.
I am told slalom44 had it right. See the XOM site.
Robinson-Patman Act prohibits discriminations in price between purchasers of commodities of like grade and quality which are likely to result in substantial injury to competition.
***Like grade and quality.*** Price differences are not within the Act unless the goods sold to the different purchasers are of "like grade and quality." This requirement relates solely to the physical characteristics of the goods. Are they sufficiently alike for the law to require that their pricing be identical? Stated conversely, is there a significant commercial difference in the physical characteristics of the goods to justify a price differential? The fact that identical goods may be sold under differing brands and may have varying degrees of customer acceptance is beside the point at this stage of the inquiry. If the goods are fundamentally alike in physical and chemical composition, they are of like grade and quality.
For insomniacs ... read: http://profs.lp.findlaw.com/antitrust/antitrust_7.html
Beleive what you want of course [Oil Companies are "evil" after all >...]; but in this at least case it is 100% true.
I am told slalom44 had it right. See the XOM site.
"Now, is answering FAQs from the general public/"customer service" really part of the job description of an R&D guy"
It's not like he's manning the 1-800 number, just speaking as an authority to a select group of interested and semi-informed individules. What's wrong with that?
It's not like he's manning the 1-800 number, just speaking as an authority to a select group of interested and semi-informed individules. What's wrong with that?
"Surprise, surprise. We get a half-baked answer from a 'customer service rep' working for a major oil company."
Bror, if he's talking about the person at Chevron who I think he is, he's definately a R&D tech, not cust service.
Bror, if he's talking about the person at Chevron who I think he is, he's definately a R&D tech, not cust service.
Right... I can just hear him in the middle of brainstorming le tribologie fantastique and stopping mid-sentence with a curt, "Gotta go - another BITOGer on the line who wants reassurance that Havoline is better than Chevron Supreme !"
The discrimination aspect comes in when certain businesses are precluded from purchasing certain brands and are offered other products that are identical, but at a higher price. That is the offense.
By having different products which maybe basically the same but with different labels available for purchase by everyone takes this act out of play. AIMHO.
By having different products which maybe basically the same but with different labels available for purchase by everyone takes this act out of play. AIMHO.
I know that when I was in a plant in Houston a few years ago, they were running a two-cycle oil. As they finished one brand they put the next one in the line. they ran more than a dozen brands off the line with the same oil.
I also know from my days in the food industry that one day I was in a bakery that was producing McDonald's English muffins. As they spot-checked the products and came to a production problem where the nooks and cranies weren't right, they took off the McD packaging and continued to fill a name brand package until the product was right. I asked them how much they lost by not controling the process earlier to avoid having to pack in the other line and they asid nothing, as they sold the name brand for more, even though it was of lesser quality.
I also know from my days in the food industry that one day I was in a bakery that was producing McDonald's English muffins. As they spot-checked the products and came to a production problem where the nooks and cranies weren't right, they took off the McD packaging and continued to fill a name brand package until the product was right. I asked them how much they lost by not controling the process earlier to avoid having to pack in the other line and they asid nothing, as they sold the name brand for more, even though it was of lesser quality.
Right... I can just hear him in the middle of brainstorming le tribologie fantastique and stopping mid-sentence with a curt, "Gotta go - another BITOGer on the line who wants reassurance that Havoline is better than Chevron Supreme !"
Yeah, drop everything and answer fan mail, that makes sense. I suppose that one scenario is the only way an R&D person could interact with our enlightened Forum members. I'm now getting the picture of why those guys would tend to shun this Forum.
Umm. I post on this site and it definately is not part of my job description. Not that I work for an oil company, or an automobile company of any kind.
Buster, we'll never see .49 Chevron Oil on this cost.
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Different packaging counts. Example from the toy industry: Schuco, Hongwell and Caramara toy cars are all the same, made by the same Chinese company, but prices vary depending on under which label the cars are sold.
I don't know that D1 and T&SUV have the same wholesale price. I'm not going to assume that. Retail price is hardly set by the manufcaturer, although they may suggest a retail price. I have never seen D1 offered by a retailer.
Oil formulations are constantly being changed. How different do two oil have to be so that it can be marketed as two different oils? What's the legal definition for "identical"?
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