Not engine or oil related...solar electric panels?

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wrcsixeight brings up a good point. you need adequate charge rate ... C/10 - C/20 is a good guideline - charge current being basically 1/10 - 1/20 of the AH capacity... a 200 AH batt wants 10-20 amps... a 100AH batt wants 5-10 amps.

the sharp panels you mentioned sound quality, though with a charge controller you need to be able to remove the blocking diode, since it adds a wasteful voltage drop.

a voltage-tracking controller WILL gain you better output. Up front I'd probably invest MORE in the panels and start with a cheaper controller. I think the gains, tops, for a tracking controller are maybe 30% at the absolute MOST.

Focus on the panels, a clean install, nice HEAVY copper from the panels (especially at 12V) for minimal loss. pay attention to your latitude and try to get them angled south for best pickup.

golf cart batteries are excellent but possibly oversized? you can get a pure deep cycle marine battery that is not a hybrid, good for ~80% depth of discharge. Trojan makes good ones. Just make sure it says marine deep cycle and doesn't say hybrid, combo, starter, or list cranking amps. Group 31 (?) are huge and can be had reasonably even at wal-mart.

read up on alastair cooper's DIY desulfator circuits.

this is a dangerous bug and can get quite addictive.

windpower is awesome. http://www.windenergy.com/products/air/air30

I built my own that, as a first try, would pull 3-5 amps in a decent winter breeze. it was fun to do but scary in a storm b/c it didn't self-furl and the sucker would SPIN. i'd have to go go out there and short it out so it could never spin up to efficient prop speed.

as an alternative to a charge controller, you can use just the blocking diode and make a "dump regulator." you set it to 14v or so and when it reaches that voltage it turns on a dummy load (lamp, fan, etc.).

order back issues or a subscription to homepower magazine. go back far enough and you'll see the system i published...
smile.gif
 
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just noted you need sealed due to open flames. outgasing will be minimal... but you might be able to find automotive batts that use a tube for venting. or sealed (maintenance free?) but that might be hard to find in a deep cycle. you might give optima deep cycles a chance. or build an outdoor box??

I did use sealed gel cells because it was indoors, and because I could buy used ones fairly cheap. wheelchair batteries make a great choice too - deep cycle, sealed, agm.

it won't be too far off when we can get to li-ion for this stuff as the prices come down!!
 
Please! Don't purchase overpriced, undersized PV panels.

Today, there are reputable vendors selling solar equipment at very competitive prices. There is no reason to spend too much.

For example, "Sunelec" a very reputable solar distributor now has, German made, high quality PV panels (not amorphous PV's like Harbor Freight) for $1.00 per watt.

For $180, you can have a true 180 watt panel.

That's cheap enough for the hobbyist, not to mention bigger setups!
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet


For example, "Sunelec" a very reputable solar distributor now has, German made, high quality PV panels (not amorphous PV's like Harbor Freight) for $1.00 per watt.





Too bad over half the panels they offer are "sold out"...
 
Originally Posted By: meep
just noted you need sealed due to open flames. outgasing will be minimal... but you might be able to find automotive batts that use a tube for venting. or sealed (maintenance free?) but that might be hard to find in a deep cycle. you might give optima deep cycles a chance. or build an outdoor box??

I did use sealed gel cells because it was indoors, and because I could buy used ones fairly cheap. wheelchair batteries make a great choice too - deep cycle, sealed, agm.

it won't be too far off when we can get to li-ion for this stuff as the prices come down!!




I'm just worried that if I would use a typical flooded battery, and store it outside; I would have issues with cold temperatures. But again, its no different than a car battery sitting outside, and it would still be getting charged during the daylight hours when cold.

Do the batteries need to be all the same? I have four batteries, two the same, and two are different (all good, all large 12-volts)? I don't see the need if they are connected in parallel and the charge is limited?
 
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This is the kit I am currently looking at:

http://www.solar-electric.com/rvvankitwi42.html

I'm now thinking I would mount this on/in the garage, so...

a) batteries would be stored indoors, but in the cold. So typical flooded batteries could be used...and I could start with batteries I own...

b) the panels could be mounted right into the roof, without worrying as much about leaks...roof damage.

c) the kit is larger than I originally spec'd, its also got the recommended MPPT charger, and all the wiring and breakers.

Thoughts?
 
i'm thinking that's a fair price. kyocera is a known brand that been around a long time. tracking controller is good.

AFA the article on the exploded wet cel... the description of cause is weird. sealed batteries, be it flooded, gel, or AGM all work under the same design and principles. We've had sealed AGM let loose in data center UPSs under trickle charge... they do it too. any battery can pop. maintenance free batteries are usually valve-regulated to hold up to 2-6 psi (single digits). biggest risk is freezing when cold + deeply discharged. they'll ice up, and then charging them builds up high pressures inside of the ice pockets---> boom.

So regardless of battery type, a box, even just a plastic marine case, is a good idea. a proper charge controller will keep the voltages down so you don't have excessive boil-off. and a healthy battery is far less likely to blow than a bad one... so as long as you know the state of your equipment you will minimize risk.

BTW-- you will quickly learn that the survival of solar/wind systems revolves around the regular art of battery care and feeding.

M
 
I assume these panels keep charging even when its cold (say 20*F), correct? So fully discharging a battery would be a non-issue.
 
yes, and their efficiency goes up as temps go down. only drawback is shorter days and sun sits lower on horizon during winter
 
Originally Posted By: deeter16317
Originally Posted By: Cujet


For example, "Sunelec" a very reputable solar distributor now has, German made, high quality PV panels (not amorphous PV's like Harbor Freight) for $1.00 per watt.

Too bad over half the panels they offer are "sold out"...


That's not been my experience. In fact, I just checked the website. The $1.00/W panels are all in stock, with the exception of the 180W unit. They have 670ea. of the 195W, 107ea. of the 190W and 137 of the 205W. How much more do they need to stock???? I live nearby the warehouse, and I've purchased from them. They generally remove the panels from the website if they are sold out.

You can justify paying more if you'd like. But, I recently purchased 4ea. 180W panels from sunelec. They are very high quality, and produce the rated power.

A neighbor of mine paid over $5 per watt/installed for Sanyo panels with a 25 year warranty. For that kind of money, I could purchase many spares and have a system twice as powerful.
 
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Cujet,
that was the point of one of the best engineers that I've worked with 15years ago.

He was lamenting that research $ and subsidies were continually being spent on the next big breakthrough, when some of the older designs, were still pretty good...nobody lives on their roof, so a cheap, fairly efficient panel producing results today rathern than a few extra watts in a few years time made sense.

As to the requirement that you must offset your whole power useage, I saw a guy gain much satisfaction build and instal a solar system solely to charge his Victa Battery powered mower off grid...absolutely nothing wrong with that.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: deeter16317
Originally Posted By: Cujet


For example, "Sunelec" a very reputable solar distributor now has, German made, high quality PV panels (not amorphous PV's like Harbor Freight) for $1.00 per watt.

Too bad over half the panels they offer are "sold out"...


That's not been my experience. In fact, I just checked the website. The $1.00/W panels are all in stock, with the exception of the 180W unit.



They must have updated their inventory...when I checked, they had nothing in stock?
 
We actually pulled the trigger on a small 140 watt (single panel) setup with the MPPT controller, etc..

We discussed the whole deal and decided we would get our feet wet with a smaller setup, get some actually learning experience out of it, and if we see we get some beneficial use out of it; we would then buy another entire setup big enough to meet our needs (possibly supply the house?).

For the first one, we are going to set it up in our stand-alone garage, where I can run flooded batteries (some of which I own, and not worry about off-gassing) and use the system for security lighting and ambient outside lighting, and maybe some garage lighting. I also don't mind drilling holes in the garage roof, since its a short timer...

I will post pictures of the install when done...
 
way to go!

you will learn a TON.

get a subscription to homepower magazine!!!!!! you NEED this resource.

Battery care will become a weekly/monthly routine.

you may find yourself itching to bolt a HF engine to a scrap alternator with homemade regulator for controlled-current charges with voltage cutoff for manual desulfation and backup power "for when the wind dont blow and the sun don't shine." (a quote from one of their articles).

LED and CFL lighting make a lot of sense here. you can adapt LED motion lamps from big-box stores for reasonable motion lighting.

You can find "grid innertie" inverters that will backfeed the grid, and shut down immediately if they sense a loss of grid power. last I knew they were reliable but the utilities were fighting them.... want separate meter for power generation, separate circuit, monthly meter reading fee... utilities were very much against green power from the consumer, despite the pro-green brochures. maybe it's gotten easier now....

there are several circuits that are simple and handy to have and use... if you are reasonable with a soldering iron, the solid state side of this hobby can be very rewarding as well. that magazine has tons of them...



M
 
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We received our kit Monday...very well packed. I was expecting the charge controller to be physically larger than what it is...its a little bit larger than a soda can. I mounted the charge controller and breaker box last night, got that wiring done. It came with stranded 10ga wire, for the short runs I'm doing, that should be overkill.

I need to buy battery terminals, and get the actual panel mounted on the roof. I also need to buy a couple LEDs...I have a bunch left over, but I have no idea where they currently reside.

I'm going to get it up and running, leave a single LED running all the time just to exercise it at first...then start wiring up other lighting, thinking about a couple lights in the garage, a spotlight for the driveway, and ancillary lighting around the back of the house (everything LED). If I knew that wiring was good, the PO had low voltage lighting everywhere out back, but I have a suspicion the wiring is faulty.
 
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