Northrock XC27 Mountain Bike

It’s weird that 1x drivetrains (single front chainrings, no front derailleur) haven’t made it to low-end mountain bikes. You’d think that would be a great way to make bikes cheaper. Ditch the front derailleur, front shifter, cable, and extra chainrings. Add a bit of money back for a bigger cassette and redesigned shifter and derailleur. Far better product in the end.

1x is like hydraulic discs and dropper posts. Once you use them, you’ll never go back.
 
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I am at the periphery of the bike business (motorized, retail a few very specific components) and it absolutely floors me they can sell a bike so inexpensively. I have zero idea of Costco's margins, but I am guessing they are getting these for $250-275 or so. Of course they aren't in the bike part mark up ridiculous food chain. We on a couple items (like special tools) know this multiple mark-up game all too well.
I am in the bike business... I also talked with Costo a number of years ago (as well has had them try to gray market stuff at a place I was working). At the time they were insistent on a 45 on margin, which would put that under $200 FOB. I think that's do-able on that bike given their sheer volume. It's insanely low, no question--but still possible. Keep in mind that "Northrock" is a shell company for Costco, so there is no middle man here. Giant used to make these but I they bounce around to different vendors depending on price.

As far as the bike, it's spec'd better than any new $350 bike! And I think one could have fun on it, and do some light trail riding on it without getting killed. The Suntour fork is better than you'll normally find on a bike at this price, and Altus works surprisingly well. The only thing is that you are totally own your own w/a Costco bike (perfect for the DIY crowd).


My only other comment: what is so hard about "do not lay flat"!?!? One way you get to this price is using the worst 5 layer cardboard box with 100% recycled content. I can feel the soggy cardboard from my computer screen. If you buy one, make sure it's from the top of the pile...
 
It’s weird that 1x drivetrains (single front chainrings, no front derailleur) haven’t made it to low-end mountain bikes. You’d think that would be a great way to make bikes cheaper. Ditch the front derailleur, front shifter, cable, and extra chainrings. Add a bit of money back for a bigger cassette and redesigned shifter and derailleur. Far better product in the end.

1x is like hydraulic discs and dropper posts. Once you use them, you’ll never go back.
you're right--and they will eventually. There are 2 issues 1)the cost of the oversized cassette (right now, you won't save as much as you'd think). 2) this buyer often looks at "number of gears" and that's it. So, to this customer a "24 speed" has more value than "11 speed". The bike industry adapts late to this stuff. $600 consumer road bikes were coming with 53/39 11-23 cassettes (along with race geometry) for about 10 years longer than they should have been. Eventually, people figured it out and started putting compact gearing on consumer road bikes--and now they're all compact except full on race bikes. Geometry now makes more sense as well (taller head tubes/shorter top tubes).

To Jeff's question, I've head everything conceivable wrapped around my 11 speed rear cassette, and it's been bombroof. I handles those conditions much better than smaller cassettes in my experience, since there are bigger gaps between the cogs--and shedding is much easier. Almost 100% of mtb and cross racers are using 1x at this point--they wouldn't be using it if it didn't work.
 
I am in the bike business... I also talked with Costo a number of years ago (as well has had them try to gray market stuff at a place I was working). At the time they were insistent on a 45 on margin, which would put that under $200 FOB. I think that's do-able on that bike given their sheer volume. It's insanely low, no question--but still possible. Keep in mind that "Northrock" is a shell company for Costco, so there is no middle man here. Giant used to make these but I they bounce around to different vendors depending on price.

As far as the bike, it's spec'd better than any new $350 bike! And I think one could have fun on it, and do some light trail riding on it without getting killed. The Suntour fork is better than you'll normally find on a bike at this price, and Altus works surprisingly well. The only thing is that you are totally own your own w/a Costco bike (perfect for the DIY crowd).


My only other comment: what is so hard about "do not lay flat"!?!? One way you get to this price is using the worst 5 layer cardboard box with 100% recycled content. I can feel the soggy cardboard from my computer screen. If you buy one, make sure it's from the top of the pile...
What's your opinion of the cheap 3d forged Al parts like stems? I bought one off amazon and while I could find no one that actually broke one in the reviews, I replaced it with a Funn stem, as the amazon one was too scary to look at. These seem to be creeping onto the quality brands lower end XC bikes rebranded as their own as well. Is there just a higher QC standard for the major manufacturers? These seem to be made quite close to the edge of reliability with such thin cross sections.
 
I honestly don't spend time looking at lower end bike brands. I think we're all assuming you want to ride around the block with your small child because that's what it said in the link you provided about the bike but those weren't your words. You didn't say if you're going to stay on pavement and bike paths or if you want to go on trails but since you already bought the hybrid bike you must not be thinking about rough trail riding. For smooth riding you don't need a suspension fork and that means you can get a better bike for the same money. I'd look at brands that offer at least S,M,L frame sizes. You never did say what your budget is? The Infinity bike you have might be fine, what makes you think you want to return it for the Northrock?

I wanted a hybrid bike and wanted to stay $300 or less for now until I figured out what type of riding I would get into. I originally wanted to get a used bike but forget about finding a good deal since spring of 2020 therefore I bought the Infinity because that was the best bike for the money at the time ($219.00). I guess I'll stick with the Infinity for now and a year or two down the road upgrade to a Trek Marlin 5.
 
What's your opinion of the cheap 3d forged Al parts like stems? I bought one off amazon and while I could find no one that actually broke one in the reviews, I replaced it with a Funn stem, as the amazon one was too scary to look at. These seem to be creeping onto the quality brands lower end XC bikes rebranded as their own as well. Is there just a higher QC standard for the major manufacturers? These seem to be made quite close to the edge of reliability with such thin cross sections.
There are fewer manufacturers of parts like that than you'd think. For instances, there are 8-10 stem manufacturers on the Mainland, and a few in Taiwan. There are a ton of trading companies that re-brand, but honestly any 3D forged stem is going to come from one of a few places and they are all going to be similar in quality--and safe to use. The insurance companies over there ensure that they meet the required testing.

When talking about OEM-level mid-priced stuff, the differences in price typically are related to finish quality more than anything else.
 
There are fewer manufacturers of parts like that than you'd think. For instances, there are 8-10 stem manufacturers on the Mainland, and a few in Taiwan. There are a ton of trading companies that re-brand, but honestly any 3D forged stem is going to come from one of a few places and they are all going to be similar in quality--and safe to use. The insurance companies over there ensure that they meet the required testing.

When talking about OEM-level mid-priced stuff, the differences in price typically are related t o finish quality more than anything else.
Interesting! In theory and I guess you're saying in practice those Al parts are near chromoly steel strength, and insurance companies there are keeping them honest as well. Before Covid and now during, I've ordered quite a few drivetrain parts from alibaba and aliexpress and they seem to work well.
I bought a fat tire bike at Anaconda Outdoors in Australia for $400 Aus taxes in 2019 and its all Al except the fork, threadless headset, cartridge bb, al cranks, 39lbs with HD tubed tires, but they did put a freewheel cassette hub on the rear which I've broke the rear axle twice now so now I've ordered a proper freewheel hub for it from aliexpress so I can throw a 8spd wide ratio cassette on with an old shifter. It also has quite modern geometry, longer reach etc and very close to the same medium size norco fat bike of that year.
Anyways I think it's pretty decent for the price especially compared with "fat bike tax" we seem to have here.
 
Interesting! In theory and I guess you're saying in practice those Al parts are near chromoly steel strength, and insurance companies there are keeping them honest as well.
Yeah, China is interesting with this stuff. I know there is an idea that it's the wild west over there--and to a certain extent it is. Plus, you do have the issue that guys like me (who are normally living there part of the year) are forced to work remotely, so QC is more tricky. Add in raw material shortages and extreme levels of demand, and no question there are going to be higher failure rates on some parts. The flip side is that the inspection process is still relatively robust. It's not immune to red envelopes in exchange for a sideways look, but the country runs less on bribes than it used to... And yes, the insurance companies help keep it honest. Every supplier has to be bonded and the companies that issue the bonds do their own audits.

Talking about stems specifically though, ironically I think low-end forged AL is probably the strongest out there. They'll typically err on the side of "heavier", and in my experience forging is a more robust way to make a stem. Tig welded chromoly is great is you have really tight controls (think old Salsa stems made in Petaluma), but there are way more things to go wrong with big productions (hence the Salsa recall when they started mass producing these at QPB). Most of the stem recalls involve welded stems (or stems without enough material).

There's more prep involved, and more humans involved--and that increases the margin for error.
 
To Jeff's question, I've head everything conceivable wrapped around my 11 speed rear cassette, and it's been bombroof. I handles those conditions much better than smaller cassettes in my experience, since there are bigger gaps between the cogs--and shedding is much easier. Almost 100% of mtb and cross racers are using 1x at this point--they wouldn't be using it if it didn't work.

Maybe the grass here is stiffer and tougher than in Pa where I started riding mtb in '87. Thanks for checking in, it's nice to hear from someone on the inside.

How are you doing getting bikes to sell?
 
Yeah, China is interesting with this stuff. I know there is an idea that it's the wild west over there--and to a certain extent it is. Plus, you do have the issue that guys like me (who are normally living there part of the year) are forced to work remotely, so QC is more tricky. Add in raw material shortages and extreme levels of demand, and no question there are going to be higher failure rates on some parts. The flip side is that the inspection process is still relatively robust. It's not immune to red envelopes in exchange for a sideways look, but the country runs less on bribes than it used to... And yes, the insurance companies help keep it honest. Every supplier has to be bonded and the companies that issue the bonds do their own audits.

Talking about stems specifically though, ironically I think low-end forged AL is probably the strongest out there. They'll typically err on the side of "heavier", and in my experience forging is a more robust way to make a stem. Tig welded chromoly is great is you have really tight controls (think old Salsa stems made in Petaluma), but there are way more things to go wrong with big productions (hence the Salsa recall when they started mass producing these at QPB). Most of the stem recalls involve welded stems (or stems without enough material).

There's more prep involved, and more humans involved--and that increases the margin for error.
That's good to hear these companies take quality seriously.
I have the 80mm version of this and its crazy how thin the clamp is around the steer tube, noticeably thinner than my headset spacers... and then they put a little more material in line with the bolts but it looks like a knick away from stress cracking at the top of the clamp and failure to me.... I did try quite hard to actually break it by holding the front tire between my legs and vertically twisting on the bars and it held but that doesn't mean much. I have seen this exact shaped stem on some Treks though and someone was putting rocky mountain logos on them and selling on ebay... 90mm is as long as they make them and if I was running a 40mm version I'd still use it, but 80mm out there is a bit of leverage on a hard landing from a poorly executed drop or jump with a 205lb rider IMO. Cheap HD strong 80mm stems are a bit of a rarity now, and all I could find at the time was a Funn Stryge at which has a bit more meat everywhere even though its an XC stem for Funn. I did some reading on CNC vs cast vs forged and now understand why the old cnc'd DH and Freeride stems were so huge and burly looking due to the possibility of unfavorable grain structure.
I also have a 80mm cnc'd and welded Al DH stem from Norco that I put on my XC bike in the early 2000's but its for 25.4mm bars which aren't made in modern widths either.

Here's the two stems, the no name one also has a shorter steer tube clamp height working against it as well as the super thin material. The Funn just looks stronger when you're on the bike and I don't give it a second thought.
stem.webp




stryge.webp
 
Maybe the grass here is stiffer and tougher than in Pa where I started riding mtb in '87. Thanks for checking in, it's nice to hear from someone on the inside.

How are you doing getting bikes to sell?
It is extremely difficult! We're a direct to consumer brand and have basically been selling pre-orders for over a year--and we deliver when the bikes arrive. On average folks are waiting 3 to 9 months. 10 years with this company and my adult life in the business (30 yrs or so) and I've never witnessed a similar situation. The earthquake at Shimano's epicenter was bad, but recovery was much quicker.


Pretty much every step is balled up--from raw materials to shipping. It's taken 90 days just to get finished product from Taiwan to the US (normally it's less than 30 days). Harder to bribe the doc workers remotely to get container space!


Kind of a perfect storm: dramatically increased demand and supply shortages across the industry at every single step...

r.e. different types of grass... yeah, you're right in that the soil content makes a difference. I grew up riding east coast mtb, and the higher clay content results in some non-functioning drivetrains! No real first-hand experience there, but this is really what drove single speed MTB when it first became a thing. Out west, even PNW mad at its worst (and it can be bad!) tends to shed easily.
 
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