non LL-01 in BMW?
- Thread starter faranks
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Originally Posted By: MCompact
New tool in town. Nice.
ridicule?
Mobil 1 0w30 went in last night, started it this morning...nasty (like rod-knock) noises are gone completely.
I was able to finally find some Mobil 1 0W-40, it was right under my nose, I missed it, my bad. It will go in shortly.
New tool in town. Nice.
ridicule?
Mobil 1 0w30 went in last night, started it this morning...nasty (like rod-knock) noises are gone completely.
I was able to finally find some Mobil 1 0W-40, it was right under my nose, I missed it, my bad. It will go in shortly.
Mobil 1 0W40 is everywhere. This thread has me somewhat baffled but follows what I see daily on U.S BMW forums.
Originally Posted By: faranks
Originally Posted By: MCompact
New tool in town. Nice.
ridicule?
I don't think that was aimed at you.
Originally Posted By: MCompact
New tool in town. Nice.
ridicule?
I don't think that was aimed at you.
My goal is met with this thread, but I would like to hear what is so baffling?
We all like to learn, especially useful things, and hopefully pass it along to be helpful, not to feel superior.
I'm trying to take the info gleaned from BITOG, comprehend, and make decisions. I'll take all this into account, but nothing replaces personal experience. I doubt many here have even seen the inside of a combustion engine. It sounds like some of the members here work in the lubrication field, and in every field even the experts have different opinions.
"Audi Junkie" (and others) has been most helpful with opinions and resources to better understand for myself. I am sorry he thought I was disagreeing with him and being condescending, but I was only indicating I thought his "too thin" statement was conflicting with the charts and language in the first couple chapters of BITOG homepage. But then he supported his opinion with excellent info.
I can contribute that my perceived problem was reduced by switching to the forementioned oil. My questions have been answered. Thank you everyone
We all like to learn, especially useful things, and hopefully pass it along to be helpful, not to feel superior.
I'm trying to take the info gleaned from BITOG, comprehend, and make decisions. I'll take all this into account, but nothing replaces personal experience. I doubt many here have even seen the inside of a combustion engine. It sounds like some of the members here work in the lubrication field, and in every field even the experts have different opinions.
"Audi Junkie" (and others) has been most helpful with opinions and resources to better understand for myself. I am sorry he thought I was disagreeing with him and being condescending, but I was only indicating I thought his "too thin" statement was conflicting with the charts and language in the first couple chapters of BITOG homepage. But then he supported his opinion with excellent info.
I can contribute that my perceived problem was reduced by switching to the forementioned oil. My questions have been answered. Thank you everyone
There more difference between Mobil 1 0w30 and 0w-40 than just the weight. The 0w-40 is like a "super-oil" with all the toughest industry specs. The 0w30 is formulated only to the most basic API SM and ACEA A1 spec.
ftr- I never thought you are acting weird or anything. I dunno what I posted other than just to say it's thin for your application. Sometimes I am short with my statements, I never know which threads I'll end up posting at length on.
ftr- I never thought you are acting weird or anything. I dunno what I posted other than just to say it's thin for your application. Sometimes I am short with my statements, I never know which threads I'll end up posting at length on.
Mobil 1 0W30 is to thin, and the HTHS is to low. Couldn't be much easier to understand.
What's wrong with picking an oil of the approved list?
The issue I see with oil recommendations is the oci. Do you wonder if the factory oci is based on keeping the expense down for the new car owner and may add to the expense of keeping the car going for the second or third owner? I don't know if I'd buy a used car knowing that the oci was 12-15k miles based on the on board oil life indicator.
The issue I see with oil recommendations is the oci. Do you wonder if the factory oci is based on keeping the expense down for the new car owner and may add to the expense of keeping the car going for the second or third owner? I don't know if I'd buy a used car knowing that the oci was 12-15k miles based on the on board oil life indicator.
there is nothing wrong with it, I was just trying to learn about the differences in oils, and what issues there would be in running lesser oils, but for shorter OCI. I still won't go that long OCI, LL01 or not. My Ford F150 has 220k, 3-4k OCI conventional oil, runs like new.
We were discussing Rotella 10w30(T5) Semi-Syn and use in BMW engines was one of my first thoughts. It does have the higher HT/HS, but w/o going crazy thick in the viscosity. At $11.50 a gallon you could change it pretty often. I have a few guys running it in HP Audi w/o turbos, they are getting their best mpg with lower consumption. It is pretty ideal for the Euro non-turbos. It has good cold numbers too. In your climate, could be an all-year choice.
Thanks AJ, I think I have seen that at my local WalMart so I will go check it out.
So quick tidbit: I tried to pass along this info to my BMW forum, and one of the veteran members had this to say to me:
"I didn't have time to read that entire thread, but BMW LL standard is WAY outdated. All you need to do is get an API SM rated synthetic oil in the correct weight and you will be fine. Forget about the BMW LL ratings. They are just about worthless in todays world. The LL standard was developed a decade ago and things have changed since. The new API SM oils meet a higher standard than the old BMW LL stuff".
My logic says to me: " why are there many SM oils that do not meet LL HT/HS standards? Why hasn't BMW updated their standard for N.A."?
Thoughts?
So quick tidbit: I tried to pass along this info to my BMW forum, and one of the veteran members had this to say to me:
"I didn't have time to read that entire thread, but BMW LL standard is WAY outdated. All you need to do is get an API SM rated synthetic oil in the correct weight and you will be fine. Forget about the BMW LL ratings. They are just about worthless in todays world. The LL standard was developed a decade ago and things have changed since. The new API SM oils meet a higher standard than the old BMW LL stuff".
My logic says to me: " why are there many SM oils that do not meet LL HT/HS standards? Why hasn't BMW updated their standard for N.A."?
Thoughts?
Originally Posted By: faranks
Thanks AJ, I think I have seen that at my local WalMart so I will go check it out.
So quick tidbit: I tried to pass along this info to my BMW forum, and one of the veteran members had this to say to me:
"I didn't have time to read that entire thread, but BMW LL standard is WAY outdated. All you need to do is get an API SM rated synthetic oil in the correct weight and you will be fine. Forget about the BMW LL ratings. They are just about worthless in todays world. The LL standard was developed a decade ago and things have changed since. The new API SM oils meet a higher standard than the old BMW LL stuff".
My logic says to me: " why are there many SM oils that do not meet LL HT/HS standards? Why hasn't BMW updated their standard for N.A."?
Thoughts?
This fellow is just plain wrong. The biggest problem in using a basic SM oil is that some owners still follow BMW's service indicator. This can result in 14,000 mile OCI. Doing this with a basic dino SM oil can result in sludge, high oil consumption, wear, etc.
Like many others have stated just use LL01 approved oil or at the very least A3 rated oil.
LL01 specs cover extremes of good cold starting properties combined with good high temperature properties and long oil change intervals.
Thanks AJ, I think I have seen that at my local WalMart so I will go check it out.
So quick tidbit: I tried to pass along this info to my BMW forum, and one of the veteran members had this to say to me:
"I didn't have time to read that entire thread, but BMW LL standard is WAY outdated. All you need to do is get an API SM rated synthetic oil in the correct weight and you will be fine. Forget about the BMW LL ratings. They are just about worthless in todays world. The LL standard was developed a decade ago and things have changed since. The new API SM oils meet a higher standard than the old BMW LL stuff".
My logic says to me: " why are there many SM oils that do not meet LL HT/HS standards? Why hasn't BMW updated their standard for N.A."?
Thoughts?
This fellow is just plain wrong. The biggest problem in using a basic SM oil is that some owners still follow BMW's service indicator. This can result in 14,000 mile OCI. Doing this with a basic dino SM oil can result in sludge, high oil consumption, wear, etc.
Like many others have stated just use LL01 approved oil or at the very least A3 rated oil.
LL01 specs cover extremes of good cold starting properties combined with good high temperature properties and long oil change intervals.
Some things don't change in newer specs, and more is not better. HT/HS just defines a viscosity, running more than you need puts excess drag on the engine.
I would not call LL-01 outdated. Later revisions (afaik) limit additive levels, not for engine life or performance, but for emissions protections. Again, not really an improvement, per se. Other aspects of the spec may have been improved, you'd have to consult the Lubrizol Euro spec tool to compare.
http://www.lubrizol.com/EuropeanEngineOils/RelativePerformanceToolIntro.html
When you look at German Syntec and especially Mobil 1 Hi-Miles, they carry the older API Sl spec, which allows higher additive levels, something that seems to work better with the USA grade fuels then the newer Euro specs. This is why some members here are drawn to them.
I would not call LL-01 outdated. Later revisions (afaik) limit additive levels, not for engine life or performance, but for emissions protections. Again, not really an improvement, per se. Other aspects of the spec may have been improved, you'd have to consult the Lubrizol Euro spec tool to compare.
http://www.lubrizol.com/EuropeanEngineOils/RelativePerformanceToolIntro.html
When you look at German Syntec and especially Mobil 1 Hi-Miles, they carry the older API Sl spec, which allows higher additive levels, something that seems to work better with the USA grade fuels then the newer Euro specs. This is why some members here are drawn to them.
Check out Lubrizol's relative performance tool.
I think you'll be surprised just how much better BMW LL-98/01 oils are than the basic requirements of SM.
A3 is more stringent than SM as well.
SM is a standard developed for short drains in mainly moderate performance engines in US use.
The Euro standards are for longer drains in higher specific output engines that may well be worked harder in typical use.
I think you'll be surprised just how much better BMW LL-98/01 oils are than the basic requirements of SM.
A3 is more stringent than SM as well.
SM is a standard developed for short drains in mainly moderate performance engines in US use.
The Euro standards are for longer drains in higher specific output engines that may well be worked harder in typical use.
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