Nokian in Hot Water

[SubLGT]

http://www.tirereview.com/Article/107063/etrma_makes_move_on_nokian_winter_tire_grade_scheme.aspx

"...........The European Tyre & Rubber Manufacturers Association (ETRMA) has called for action against one of its own members after Nokian Tyres took the initiative of producing its own ice and snow tire grading label..........................
.......................................

Nokian, which specializes in winter tires, appears to have devised its own additional labeling system in response to the fact that the new EU tire label that became mandatory on Nov. 1 doesn’t include snow and ice performance information. .................."

 

[FirstNissan]

I've been looking for a place online to buy ?nokians. Any reccs?

 

[NateDN10]

Seems like a logical move for Nokian. I guess I don't understand European politics enough to see why this is frowned upon.

 

[NateDN10]

Originally Posted By: FirstNissan
I've been looking for a place online to buy ?nokians. Any reccs?

May want to start a new thread for your question.

 

[Smokescreen]

So ETRMA has a problem with Nokian putting their own winter performance ratings on their own tires because currently there is no rating system for winter tires.

Nokian is arguably the best winter tire manufacturer in the world. I could see if they openly rated against Michelin, Goodyear, Bridgstone etc, but they don't. They don't claim EU rating standards either, just within Nokian lines. They say there is no current performance guidelines for winter tires, but there is in order to qualify for a winter tire snow rating...Nokian takes it just one step further and grades their tires accordingly. What's to stop Bridgestone from doing the same to their Blizzak line, or Michelin?

Clearly this an open call to come up with some winter ratings. In countries where winter is a serious seasonal hazard for driving, consumers need all the information they can get. Good for Nokian.

 

[SLCraig]

Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
So ETRMA has a problem with Nokian putting their own winter performance ratings on their own tires because currently there is no rating system for winter tires.

Nokian is arguably the best winter tire manufacturer in the world. I could see if they openly rated against Michelin, Goodyear, Bridgstone etc, but they don't. They don't claim EU rating standards either, just within Nokian lines. They say there is no current performance guidelines for winter tires, but there is in order to qualify for a winter tire snow rating...Nokian takes it just one step further and grades their tires accordingly. What's to stop Bridgestone from doing the same to their Blizzak line, or Michelin?

Clearly this an open call to come up with some winter ratings. In countries where winter is a serious seasonal hazard for driving, consumers need all the information they can get. Good for Nokian.


Pretty much this.
Love Nokian winter tires, top notch.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Seems like a logical move for Nokian. I guess I don't understand European politics enough to see why this is frowned upon.


They are arguing that a proper testing procedure to rank winter tire performance doesn't exist at this point in time.

Based on some of the testing done by Bridgestone, Michelin, Nokian...etc, I seriously question the validity of their stance.....

 

[CapriRacer]

I also think there is a problem with using a label that looks like the government required label. That might create confusion in a consumer's mind. I'm sure that there had to be some official response in order to get the government to act on it.

 

[kdgrayson]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Seems like a logical move for Nokian. I guess I don't understand European politics enough to see why this is frowned upon.


They are arguing that a proper testing procedure to rank winter tire performance doesn't exist at this point in time.

Based on some of the testing done by Bridgestone, Michelin, Nokian...etc, I seriously question the validity of their stance.....


The North American winter rating is only for snow traction. Apparently devising a reproducible ice surface test is not so easy. This is how some A/T truck tires can be winter rated. I bet many (if not most) studdable snow tires wouldn't pass either without studs installed.

 

[Rand]

The problem is nokian may appear to be not top notch as their winter tires will get poor grades vs UHP summer tires in say.. dry testing at 80F

but no winter results are reported.

so nokian wr g2 may get say.. a B but something that wont move in the snow might get an A and seem better.
.

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: FirstNissan
I've been looking for a place online to buy ?nokians. Any reccs?


DTD for winter tires

www.discounttiredirect.com




for nokian wr g2's
http://www.tiresbyweb.com/p-8982-nokian-wr-g2-tires.aspx

Free shipping but still somewhat pricy.

 

[Smokescreen]

Originally Posted By: Rand
The problem is nokian may appear to be not top notch as their winter tires will get poor grades vs UHP summer tires in say.. dry testing at 80F

but no winter results are reported.

so nokian wr g2 may get say.. a B but something that wont move in the snow might get an A and seem better.
.


I have no idea how this was derived from the article.

The issue lies with Nokian supplying their own rating system for their own tire lines. The rating system for Nokian tires vs the rest of the tire companies in the world still are in place, its just not accurate enough to say this is a winter tire, this is not for most consumers. Nokian realizes this and set out to provide a more accurate system for their products.

 

[SubLGT]

Here is a follow up from Nokian:

http://www.tirereview.com/Article/107430/nokian_pulls_label_still_feels_something_is_needed.aspx

"............The motivation for the introduction of this voluntary information was to redress the perceived imbalance against winter tires created by the mandatory European label. The problem is that this label tests tires at ambient temperatures way above those for which winter tires are designed and therefore do not give a fair representation of their performance. ..........."

 

[meb]

And I agree with them on this point...and reason enough to rebel against, or at least call out, a deficiency in the rating system.

Dry testing winter tires at summer temps is tantamount to testing super high performance summer only tires in winter. It makes no sense. I own a set of the Hakkapeliitta Rs, the type mentioned in the article. They are incredible in the snow, slush with a bit of ice thrown in. But I've also driven them when temps were above 60 deg F. Still predictable; good traction, good braking, good cornering so long as one understands the nature of the sidewalls. They do wear very quickly at summer temps., as is to be expected. However, they weren't design to be driven at those temps. So, rating these in a summer environment seems a bit aloof.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: meb
And I agree with them on this point...and reason enough to rebel against, or at least call out, a deficiency in the rating system.

Dry testing winter tires at summer temps is tantamount to testing super high performance summer only tires in winter. It makes no sense. I own a set of the Hakkapeliitta Rs, the type mentioned in the article. They are incredible in the snow, slush with a bit of ice thrown in. But I've also driven them when temps were above 60 deg F. Still predictable; good traction, good braking, good cornering so long as one understands the nature of the sidewalls. They do wear very quickly at summer temps., as is to be expected. However, they weren't design to be driven at those temps. So, rating these in a summer environment seems a bit aloof.


There's another side to this coin - and that is would the consumer misunderstand that winter tires might be unsuited for use in the summer?

Still, they could have work this through the ETRMA (They are members, right?) The way they did it just creates bad feelings all around.

 

[meb]

I think it's the type of winter tire; I had a set of high performance Dunlop winter tires on my Mini and those could have run all year with little trouble...less dry grip than my summer tires for sure. But the Nokian tire type in the article is extremely soft, Q rated from memory, and as such is a few leagues ahead of the snows I put on the Mini in winter. and although I drove on them last winter - no snow and warm temps in the NE USA, they are only predictable up to normal highway speeds. Even then, steering response and grip are both below average when compared with say an all-season tire.