No more V6 Durango

[andrew_j]

It’s all Ford out here.

NH uses Ford explorer and Tahoe for cruiser while state police use Charger and Tahoe. No clue what state police chargers are getting replaced with.

Durango not used.

 

[andrew_j]

The largest issue with V8 only is abysmal fuel economy. The V8 gets 14 city / 22 highway which is dreadful. I rented one they deliver noise however not a lot of power for that poor MPG.

 

[Tdbo]

Why automatically slap "worn out" along with the rest ? Nothing wrong with taking platforms and cobbling extended time out on them anyway they can. Doesn't automatically mean they are worn out. My understanding is that most mainstream personal firearms nowadays are base on platforms and schematics more than a century old.

That too would be an assumption. I don't think any of the large displacement things they have put on the market in the last ten years were a sign of lack of resources. They simply do what works for them. More power to them. They might not have a scheduled full refresh from scratch every five years, but that's not a minus in my book.

And I give them huge respect for filling niche markets for products that are sorely needed, even if it makes them look low grade.
The Journey, as ridiculous as it might have been, filled a need.

Much more so - back when the Grand Caravan still existed, it was an amazing offering. It was a Chrysler watchamacallit, Town&Country or whatever, for 35% less. Was about $22k when the Chrysler was starting north of $33k (and was already less expensive than everything else). The Grand Caravan was the same thing, with less bells and whistles, but with all the essentials: the needed number of seats, the same power, and a working AC. Same vehicle, without the Stow'n Go option. It kept selling years even after the Pacifica came out. And it was the only choice for fleet vehicles, and for families who had plenty of children and not plenty of money, and who needed a simple kid hauler that worked. It generated foot traffic at the dealership, it didn't compete internally with any other product, it was pure bonus. Most of its buyers needed it to have an engine, for this engine to work, and for the thing to bring them from point A to point B, in numbers. Which it did.

It's a perfect example of listening to the client. They might be crap, but they do listen. They don't pull the rug from under your feet, shoving a new one that is worse while screaming that it's their way or the highway. That Carlos ceo of theirs tried, big good it did him.

I don't think any of it is assumption, it is very clear that they do not have the resources.
They can't even put forth a decent roster of vehicles.
Chrysler has one. A van. That's it.
Dodge has three. An SUV, the Charger and the Hornet. I can only speak to where I live, but I have seen exactly zero of either the new body style Charger or the Hornet on the road. Neither appear to be selling.
I can think of nothing new in recent that they have come up with that hasn't been reworked Fiat or Alfa.
Their financial outlook is not rosy.
Nothing necessarily wrong with older platforms, as long as you update and keep them relevant. I think they have done the best they can with the hand they have been dealt, but by most standards, that hasn't happened. Slapping V8's in old platforms, developing graphic packages and personas, and a Mulroney sticker that reflects this may be a short term fix, but not a long term solution.
I really am not a Chrysler hater. I think a Chrysler being a successful company is beneficial. However, in all honesty, they have been marginal for years. They gained some strength during the first 90% of the Iacocca years, and had some decent product in the early to mid 90's and into the 2000's. However, once Mercedes got their hands on them it was game over.
Sure there has been some leadership over the years that caught some wind, but they could not gain momentum. That is because the resources were not there to develop product. That coupled with some really stupid business decisions, have put them in the quandary they are in. It's a matter of when it implodes, and what becomes of what is left (RAM/Jeep.)

 

[D60]

^some of the complaints here are underscored by the recent PTU debacle on KL Cherokees: they're giving you a LT warranty on the PTU and updating the software to "detect" impending failure.

The former feels a but like a LT warranty through Montgomery Ward or Radio Shack, and I guess we'll find out if the latter works.

The next hurdle is parts availability because right now it's an intergalactic backorder situation.

I realize this is an older platform but it's typical of how Stellantis handles all problems: buy time and hope to kick the can down the road.

Furthermore it's a self-perpetuating problem: poor engineering begets financial hardship which begets more poor designs which begets more financial distress and on and on.

Also some want to blame BorgWarner for the PTU but that's disingenuous -- the buck stops with the auto manufacturer and THEY need to make it right. Stellantis can pursue BW if they want, but that is NOT the consumers' problem.

 

[OVERKILL]

I don't think any of it is assumption, it is very clear that they do not have the resources.
They can't even put forth a decent roster of vehicles.
Chrysler has one. A van. That's it.
Dodge has three. An SUV, the Charger and the Hornet. I can only speak to where I live, but I have seen exactly zero of either the new body style Charger or the Hornet on the road. Neither appear to be selling.
I can think of nothing new in recent that they have come up with that hasn't been reworked Fiat or Alfa.
Their financial outlook is not rosy.
Nothing necessarily wrong with older platforms, as long as you update and keep them relevant. I think they have done the best they can with the hand they have been dealt, but by most standards, that hasn't happened. Slapping V8's in old platforms, developing graphic packages and personas, and a Mulroney sticker that reflects this may be a short term fix, but not a long term solution.
I really am not a Chrysler hater. I think a Chrysler being a successful company is beneficial. However, in all honesty, they have been marginal for years. They gained some strength during the first 90% of the Iacocca years, and had some decent product in the early to mid 90's and into the 2000's. However, once Mercedes got their hands on them it was game over.
Sure there has been some leadership over the years that caught some wind, but they could not gain momentum. That is because the resources were not there to develop product. That coupled with some really stupid business decisions, have put them in the quandary they are in. It's a matter of when it implodes, and what becomes of what is left (RAM/Jeep.)

But Stellantis (the parent) has considerable resources. The first 6 months of 2024 they grossed €85 billion ($99.5 USD) and netted €5.6 billion ($6.55 USD). That compares quite favorably to Ford, who, for the same period, grossed $90.6 billion and netted $3.2 billion.

In comparison, Honda's gross for the whole of 2024 was $137.84 billion and a net of $9.64 billion. Mazda doesn't come close to any of these.

One needs to consider what it is that the parent sees as the future for the subordinates. For the Chrysler marque, despite your claims, it is not a lack of resources at the parent, but a lack of vision and perhaps a lack of a future for the brand in long-term planning, which is why it has been allowed to flounder.

Given the development of the new Charger/Challenger pairing, I wouldn't be inclined to have the same negative outlook for Dodge, though I do think that management may have lost the plot as to what that brand is, and what it is capable of selling, though they appear to be slowing coming around on that, hopefully it is not too late.

Jeep and RAM are obviously reasonably healthy, despite a reduction in RAM sales, and we'll likely see those pick back up with the revised powertrain lineup.

 

[OVERKILL]

Also some want to blame BorgWarner for the PTU but that's disingenuous -- the buck stops with the auto manufacturer and THEY need to make it right. Stellantis can pursue BW if they want, but that is NOT the consumers' problem.

Nature of the beast. Lots of people wanted to blame Dana for Toyota's frame debacle (and Toyota did, quite rightly, go after Dana), but, as you note, the buck stops with the company selling the product. A Class Action lawsuit later, and people got new frames.

 

[Tdbo]

But Stellantis (the parent) has considerable resources. The first 6 months of 2024 they grossed €85 billion ($99.5 USD) and netted €5.6 billion ($6.55 USD). That compares quite favorably to Ford, who, for the same period, grossed $90.6 billion and netted $3.2 billion.

In comparison, Honda's gross for the whole of 2024 was $137.84 billion and a net of $9.64 billion. Mazda doesn't come close to any of these.

One needs to consider what it is that the parent sees as the future for the subordinates. For the Chrysler marque, despite your claims, it is not a lack of resources at the parent, but a lack of vision and perhaps a lack of a future for the brand in long-term planning, which is why it has been allowed to flounder.

Given the development of the new Charger/Challenger pairing, I wouldn't be inclined to have the same negative outlook for Dodge, though I do think that management may have lost the plot as to what that brand is, and what it is capable of selling, though they appear to be slowing coming around on that, hopefully it is not too late.

Jeep and RAM are obviously reasonably healthy, despite a reduction in RAM sales, and we'll likely see those pick back up with the revised powertrain lineup.

Again, if they have the resources, why can't they field even a moderate lineup?
They are either incompetent , don't have the resources, or choose to not invest in their product.
At any rate, it's a mess.

 

[OVERKILL]

Again, if they have the resources, why can't they field even a moderate lineup?
They are either incompetent , don't have the resources, or choose to not invest in their product.
At any rate, it's a mess.

That's my point regarding Chrysler, it's not a lack of resources, it's a choice. I expect they are phasing out the brand.

 

[goblin]

Did Toyota ever try to send their clients to deal directly with Dana though ?
I think they made their clients whole, then went after Dana.

One of the top 3 guys at Peugeot-Citroën (it was then still PSA Group) was a family friend 20+ years ago, and they were in a flood of Xsara Picasso (Citroën) issues some specific summer.

Ignition barrel would seize while parked. Apparently the supplier had switched some internals to plastic, which held fine till the first summer vacation came. People would park their cars and go to the beach, leave them under the scorching sun, and come back to a car that won't start as the key wouldn't turn, and would break the internals if forced. His estimate (internal, not the publicly provided figures) was about 45000 vehicles, all almost new.

I asked how they're handling it, his comment was "...We're fixing them all on the spot as fast as we can, then we'll replace them with upgraded parts once they come out, and we're billing the supplier..."

 

[OVERKILL]

Did Toyota ever try to send their clients to deal directly with Dana though ?
I think they made their clients whole, then went after Dana.

No, but they didn't do anything until they got sued. It wasn't proactive, it was reactive (making their clients whole).

One of the top 3 guys at Peugeot-Citroën (it was then still PSA Group) was a family friend 20+ years ago, and they were in a flood of Xsara Picasso (Citroën) issues some specific summer.

Ignition barrel would seize while parked. Apparently the supplier had switched some internals to plastic, which held fine till the first summer vacation came. People would park their cars and go to the beach, leave them under the scorching sun, and come back to a car that won't start as the key wouldn't turn, and would break the internals if forced. His estimate (internal, not the publicly provided figures) was about 45000 vehicles, all almost new.

I asked how they're handling it, his comment was "...We're fixing them all on the spot as fast as we can, then we'll replace them with upgraded parts once they come out, and we're billing the supplier..."

That sounds reasonable, was it a recall or more of a TSB?

 

[Tdbo]

That's my point regarding Chrysler, it's not a lack of resources, it's a choice. I expect they are phasing out the brand.

That's obvious.
Dodge is not much better off either.
After all, they did separate the truck division years ago and combined all the marques into one stop shops. When are they finally going to pull the trigger and thin the herd?
No wonder there is such turn over in CJDR dealerships (at least around here.)

 

[goblin]

Did some research, and the issue with the Xsara was actually quite cute.

The AC blower fan's circuit was routed through the ignition barrel. On hot days with extensive AC usage it would eventually overheat and lock the barrel, preventing you from cutting the engine. The parked under the sun issue was also occurring, in this case - preventing you from starting the engine.

PSA had to modify the wiring loom and add a relay as well. So both parties were responsible.

Not sure how it ended.

 

[JHZR2]

Not everybody wants to waste fuel, all the time.

 

[HemiBenny]

Dodge and Chrysler should be allowed to die.

At this point, they've gone beyond a dignified death.

It pains me to say this, but it's true.

If you're not going to do anything with these legendary nameplates, LET......THEM.......DIE!

 

[ctechbob]

Dodge and Chrysler should be allowed to die.

At this point, they've gone beyond a dignified death.

It pains me to say this, but it's true.

If you're not going to do anything with these legendary nameplates, LET......THEM.......DIE!

Comon now. The Hornet and Dart were......

Well....

Vehicles?

At least they did something with those names? Too bad that something was murder them with prejudice.

 

[dishdude]

Dodge and Chrysler should be allowed to die.

At this point, they've gone beyond a dignified death.

It pains me to say this, but it's true.

If you're not going to do anything with these legendary nameplates, LET......THEM.......DIE!

Sadly I have to agree. They never should have spun Ram off as it's own brand, the last thing any automaker needs is another brand. But, Americans love trucks and SUVs, so Jeep and Ram fill that demand perfectly. Rebrand the Pacifica a Caravan (never should have killed that nameplate anyway) and call it a day.