No More Oxygenated Fuel!

[mjo]

EPA Drops Oxygenation Requirements for Reformulated Gasoline

I'm glad they're doing this! Better MPG and less toxic gasoline for everyone!!

 

[Jaybird]

Oxygenators provide a better change of clean combustion, which would equate to better MPG.

Less toxic? Is this in reference to Ethenol or MTBE?

 

[DJ]

Jaybird at risk of sounding like a complete *** you NEED to do at least a slight amount of research. Ethanol in particular is known to reduce milage because it contains far fewer BTUs simple science then dictates you have to burn more to do the same amount of work. Even ethanol supporters will admit that.

As far as the article saying ethanol is a suppy extender, given what the stuff does to milage it extends the supply much less than the 10% that is the usual blend rate in the areas that do use it.
In my area depending exactly where you are you can get either blended or not, coworkers and such start complaining about particular brands and stations they get bad milage from and they are invariably 10% blend stations. These milage complaints come come from people who did not before realize it was a blend, they thought it was a brand issue or something.

 

[ALS]

And to DJ's comments, MTBE is a known carcinogen.
Once in the Ground water system it is almost impossible to filter the chemical out to make it drinkable.

 

[Jimbo]

I'm sure Kalifornia and the corn-belt states wont drop the requirement though.

Jaybird,

It only changed combustion for very old cars without O2 sensors. How much of the present fleet is more than 20 years old, and does that justify a requrement that lowers mpg for every one else?

 

[Blake Sobiloff]

Jimbo, I believe California was one of the states that forced the issue and won against the Federal government. Most of the corn belt states were against changing the rules. http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/116142

 

[k1xv]

Gee. I guess they finally realized that most of the cars on the road these days have fuel injection and oxygen sensors in the exhaust pipe.

 

[Jaybird]

quote:

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And to DJ's comments, MTBE is a known carcinogen.
Once in the Ground water system it is almost impossible to filter the chemical out to make it drinkable.

---

Show me the study that concludes MTBE to be a carcinogen.

 

[mjo]

From Blake's article link:

quote:

---

California, New York and Connecticut unsuccessfully had asked the EPA for a waiver of the requirement because the states had banned MTBE after finding it polluted the groundwater. The states were forced to use ethanol, which they contend worsened pollution problems.
Arizona has banned the use of MTBE as an "oxygenate" additive to fight smog.

---

 

[Master ACiD]

i wouldnt really care if mtbe is a carcinogen. so what? i mean everything else is too. gasoline with or without mtbe is a carcinogen. motor oil, cell phones, smoking, youre computer.

all these things are carcinogens, and most of them can contaminate ground water just as easily as mtbe. maybe not the computer however the batteries in a cellphone are bad for ground water.

seems like everything is bad for you these days. i say dont worry about it. just go with the cheapest method.

 

[Stooge]

MTBE, in very small amounts, when leaked from underground storage tanks, such as the ones at gas stations, contaminates well water for miles around the spill site. And these tanks are notoriously leaky. The normal processes that normally clean and dilute the MTBE are ineffective, and residuals of MTBE remain for decades in the water table. This fact alone was the compelling reason for the EPA to eliminate the "EPA gas" across the country. Ethanol, as an oxygenate, was just a carry along deletion. It's unfortunate that the "EPA gas" just wasn't eliminated because it did very little to decrease NOx emissions, decreased overall gas mileage, especially in the colder months, and people had to get sick from a known cancer-causing agent before the EPA would react properly.

 

[wileyE]

Right or wrong the 10% ethanol was a result of a backdoor deal a certain publican named newt made with AMD.

 

[the1031don]

ethanol is the future. i'm for more potent blends. we need to free our selves from our middle eastern oil dependency. with barrels of crude over $60, let's push for the use of ethanol and cars made to use it.

 

[Schmoe]

In 1995 high levels of MTBE were unexpectedly discovered in the water wells of Santa Monica, California, and the U.S. Geological Survey reported detections Subsequent U.S. findings indicate tens of thousands of contaminated sites in water wells distributed across the country. The World Health Organization has made the finding that MTBE is a carcinogen and induces liver lesions in animals[2]. Although the extent of MTBE as a helath risk is debatable, a transparent disadvantage is that MTBE ruins the taste of water even at low concentrations of 5–15 mg/litre. As a result, significant concentrations of MTBE in drinking water are immediately detectable. The leakage problem is partially attributed to the lack of effective regulations for underground storage tanks, but spillage overfilling remain important upset scenarios. While the EU does not predict the same problem in Europe, the study which the EU has relied upon is patently simplistic and flawed. The MTBE concentrations used in the EU (usually 1.0–1.6%) and allowed (maximum 5%) in Europe are lower than in California.

 

[Ray Garlington]

anybody know how much it costs to make 60 gallons of ethanol?

 

[Ray Garlington]

a google source (always reliable) says it costs $1.74 / gallon to make ethanol. I don't know how much gasoline you get from a barrel of oil, but it looks like it would be a lot cheaper to burn gas at that price.

For a real solution, it looks like you have to look for something fundamentally different.

 

[the1031don]

Ray Gar;slkton prove it. send use a link to the literature that you referenced.

Do your research on ethanol and you'll learn that:
processing corn produces: ethanol, high quality feed for livestock, plastics, and more. that's off the top of my head.

It can be produced at a much more effective price. I did my research sometime ago and invested in Arthur Midland Daniels and earned a great return. corn is the future.

 

[the1031don]

feel bad for those who are stuck in those middle states. what a meager existence. but somebodys got to tend to that corn field. glad its them and not me.

 

[jmacmaster]

Well, I've read about study after study that found that it takes almost as much or more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than the energy you get from that gallon of ethanol that you produce. And I'm talking about independent studies, not studies produced by people and entities that have a stake in ethanol production. If that's the case, ethanol is not the future. If it takes a company about a gallon of ethanol fuel to produce a gallon of ethanol all the ethanol produced will have to be used to produce that ethanol. So there won't be any ethanol left over to run our motor vehicles and other things. Why do you think that the ethanol production industry is subsidized? Because it can't make any money and get ahead of the game on its own.

 

[MADMIKE]

And another thing, a GAO study found that the oxygenates don't even work! Another stupid government/environmentalist idea that has no impact and costs billions. People are far too eager to implement these stupid ideas without adequate research. So many of these global warming solutions are the same---miniscule impact if any, and costing billions!