Just when I think I know something, I find out I don't. If Next Gen is full synthetic, how does it contain 50% used oil base stock? I thought M1, Syntec, Platinum, etc. use 100% synthetic base stock. If anyone asked, I would call it a semi-syn. What am I missing????
NextGen Synthetic info
- Thread starter Russ300H
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re-refined hydrocrack. Same as other oils that are hydrockracked from crude oil, just less resources wasted for processing.
It can be fully synthetic and be 50% re-refined oil used. It called hyrdo-cracking(3+). Using the same hydro-cracking process they use for refining any other synthetic Valvoline makes. Doesn't matter if it is recycled oil or not.
P.S. Hopefully the real oil guru's will come and take off where I left off, as they maybe be able to elaborate better than I.
P.S. Hopefully the real oil guru's will come and take off where I left off, as they maybe be able to elaborate better than I.
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JHZR2
Staff member
It's amazing what can be done with organic chemistry. Hydrocracking will open aromatics and double bonds, but a few other reactions can get you esters and more or less anything else you might want.
One of the beauties of re-refined oils is that the cut is already roughly correct so the energy that would be used on separations unit operations can be used elsewhere for upgrading.
One of the beauties of re-refined oils is that the cut is already roughly correct so the energy that would be used on separations unit operations can be used elsewhere for upgrading.
I wonder why Valvoline doesn't make Nextgen products 100% re-refined oil. Or if they have plans to do this in the future.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
I wonder why Valvoline doesn't make Nextgen products 100% re-refined oil. Or if they have plans to do this in the future.
My guess is that they are very selective with their sources, like, say, some pilot number of valvoline quicklube places where they have more control over their source. Because you don't want fuel, brake fluid, antifreeze, gear oil, ATF/mtf mixed in.
Plus pilot chemical plants are always built in a staged way. They are still likely at a very low production rate on small equipment.
I wonder why Valvoline doesn't make Nextgen products 100% re-refined oil. Or if they have plans to do this in the future.
My guess is that they are very selective with their sources, like, say, some pilot number of valvoline quicklube places where they have more control over their source. Because you don't want fuel, brake fluid, antifreeze, gear oil, ATF/mtf mixed in.
Plus pilot chemical plants are always built in a staged way. They are still likely at a very low production rate on small equipment.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
I wonder why Valvoline doesn't make Nextgen products 100% re-refined oil. Or if they have plans to do this in the future.
My guess is that they are very selective with their sources, like, say, some pilot number of valvoline quicklube places where they have more control over their source. Because you don't want fuel, brake fluid, antifreeze, gear oil, ATF/mtf mixed in.
Plus pilot chemical plants are always built in a staged way. They are still likely at a very low production rate on small equipment.
Valvoline's source is not their oil change shops, this was covered in the Valvoline Q&A. Valvoline doesn't re-refine their own oil, they are just a blender with their own API testing facility, the only blender to have one. Although they didn't say who their source is, my money is on Safety-Kleen (now Clean Harbors). They are the largest re-refiner in North America.
Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
I wonder why Valvoline doesn't make Nextgen products 100% re-refined oil. Or if they have plans to do this in the future.
My guess is that they are very selective with their sources, like, say, some pilot number of valvoline quicklube places where they have more control over their source. Because you don't want fuel, brake fluid, antifreeze, gear oil, ATF/mtf mixed in.
Plus pilot chemical plants are always built in a staged way. They are still likely at a very low production rate on small equipment.
Valvoline's source is not their oil change shops, this was covered in the Valvoline Q&A. Valvoline doesn't re-refine their own oil, they are just a blender with their own API testing facility, the only blender to have one. Although they didn't say who their source is, my money is on Safety-Kleen (now Clean Harbors). They are the largest re-refiner in North America.
Maxlife 100% synthetic is not the nextgen variety (no recycled oil). The Valvoline Maxlife nextgen is semi synthetic (50% recycled base stocks). From what I read in valvoline nextgen Q&A, they say it is easier to refine used motor oil than crude. I wonder how they do the refining process though. If they are refining used motor oil, and that used motor oil is a mix of Dino, and synthetic motor oil. Does this base have to be re-hydrocracked to achieve the g3+ base stock or just refined to a g2 or g2+ and blend with a virgin g3+ base? All we can do is take valvoline's word for there product. I use the nextgen Maxlife in my old Honda, and it really is great stuff.
Originally Posted By: Zeus103363
Maxlife 100% synthetic is not the nextgen variety (no recycled oil). The Valvoline Maxlife nextgen is semi synthetic (50% recycled base stocks). From what I read in valvoline nextgen Q&A, they say it is easier to refine used motor oil than crude. I wonder how they do the refining process though. If they are refining used motor oil, and that used motor oil is a mix of Dino, and synthetic motor oil. Does this base have to be re-hydrocracked to achieve the g3+ base stock or just refined to a g2 or g2+ and blend with a virgin g3+ base? All we can do is take valvoline's word for there product. I use the nextgen Maxlife in my old Honda, and it really is great stuff.
I don't think they have Maxlife recycled Full Synthetic on the market yet, just the non-Maxlife flavor. In theory, you could re-refine any conventional oil into a group 3 by sending it through a hydrocrack process. Since the hydrocarbons are being broken up into whatever size you want the end result would be identical to a normal group 3. Add whatever additive pack you want, and it's good to go.
Maxlife 100% synthetic is not the nextgen variety (no recycled oil). The Valvoline Maxlife nextgen is semi synthetic (50% recycled base stocks). From what I read in valvoline nextgen Q&A, they say it is easier to refine used motor oil than crude. I wonder how they do the refining process though. If they are refining used motor oil, and that used motor oil is a mix of Dino, and synthetic motor oil. Does this base have to be re-hydrocracked to achieve the g3+ base stock or just refined to a g2 or g2+ and blend with a virgin g3+ base? All we can do is take valvoline's word for there product. I use the nextgen Maxlife in my old Honda, and it really is great stuff.
I don't think they have Maxlife recycled Full Synthetic on the market yet, just the non-Maxlife flavor. In theory, you could re-refine any conventional oil into a group 3 by sending it through a hydrocrack process. Since the hydrocarbons are being broken up into whatever size you want the end result would be identical to a normal group 3. Add whatever additive pack you want, and it's good to go.
No oil is 100% synthetic unless it is a Group IV and better yet a Group V oil. This oil is Group II or maybe a Group III. Don't be fooled by the writing on the bottle that it is a 100% full synthetic.
You should of started your post IYO. Because I disagree with your statement because the overall chemistry of the complete product is more important than a marketing term IMO. But I digress this is for another topic.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: dave1251
You should of started your post IYO. Because I disagree with your statement because the overall chemistry of the complete product is more important than a marketing term IMO. But I digress this is for another topic.
Agree the stupid group IV and V argument is awful old.
You should of started your post IYO. Because I disagree with your statement because the overall chemistry of the complete product is more important than a marketing term IMO. But I digress this is for another topic.
Agree the stupid group IV and V argument is awful old.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: tinmanSC
Originally Posted By: Zeus103363
Maxlife 100% synthetic is not the nextgen variety (no recycled oil). The Valvoline Maxlife nextgen is semi synthetic (50% recycled base stocks). From what I read in valvoline nextgen Q&A, they say it is easier to refine used motor oil than crude. I wonder how they do the refining process though. If they are refining used motor oil, and that used motor oil is a mix of Dino, and synthetic motor oil. Does this base have to be re-hydrocracked to achieve the g3+ base stock or just refined to a g2 or g2+ and blend with a virgin g3+ base? All we can do is take valvoline's word for there product. I use the nextgen Maxlife in my old Honda, and it really is great stuff.
I don't think they have Maxlife recycled Full Synthetic on the market yet, just the non-Maxlife flavor. In theory, you could re-refine any conventional oil into a group 3 by sending it through a hydrocrack process. Since the hydrocarbons are being broken up into whatever size you want the end result would be identical to a normal group 3. Add whatever additive pack you want, and it's good to go.
First, there is always a distribution of products, not some homogenous thing; even in synthesizing fuels and lubes from syngas or ethylene. Second, you're making major assumptions on what happens in the hydrocrack of finished lube oils. Third, you're assuming they re-hydrocrack and don't do some other substitution or other reaction to freaks a desired product.
Originally Posted By: Zeus103363
Maxlife 100% synthetic is not the nextgen variety (no recycled oil). The Valvoline Maxlife nextgen is semi synthetic (50% recycled base stocks). From what I read in valvoline nextgen Q&A, they say it is easier to refine used motor oil than crude. I wonder how they do the refining process though. If they are refining used motor oil, and that used motor oil is a mix of Dino, and synthetic motor oil. Does this base have to be re-hydrocracked to achieve the g3+ base stock or just refined to a g2 or g2+ and blend with a virgin g3+ base? All we can do is take valvoline's word for there product. I use the nextgen Maxlife in my old Honda, and it really is great stuff.
I don't think they have Maxlife recycled Full Synthetic on the market yet, just the non-Maxlife flavor. In theory, you could re-refine any conventional oil into a group 3 by sending it through a hydrocrack process. Since the hydrocarbons are being broken up into whatever size you want the end result would be identical to a normal group 3. Add whatever additive pack you want, and it's good to go.
First, there is always a distribution of products, not some homogenous thing; even in synthesizing fuels and lubes from syngas or ethylene. Second, you're making major assumptions on what happens in the hydrocrack of finished lube oils. Third, you're assuming they re-hydrocrack and don't do some other substitution or other reaction to freaks a desired product.
Originally Posted By: Russ300H
I thought M1, Syntec, Platinum, etc. use 100% synthetic base stock. If anyone asked, I would call it a semi-syn. What am I missing????
You're missing the fact that the synthetic base stock is ultimately produce from a primitive raw material such as crude oil. A used motor oil can be treated as such as source, after re-refining it.
I thought M1, Syntec, Platinum, etc. use 100% synthetic base stock. If anyone asked, I would call it a semi-syn. What am I missing????
You're missing the fact that the synthetic base stock is ultimately produce from a primitive raw material such as crude oil. A used motor oil can be treated as such as source, after re-refining it.
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