Newmarket (Ontario) Toyota clueless

[pennzoil_guru]

I had the transmission fluid flushed in my 2006 Sienna at the above dealer with 32000 miles. As the van now has 53000 miles on it, I filled out the service request form online for a pan drop/filter change as the pan has never been cleaned nor the filter changed.

Here was the dealer's reply. The caps are all theirs.

HI...WE FLUSHED YOUR TRANSMISSION FLUID AT 30000MILES...THERE IS NO FILTER TO BE REPLACED AND IS THERE A REASON YOU WANT THE FLUID CHANGED AGAIN?? IT SHOULD STILL BE CLEAN...WE NEVER DROP THE PAN AND CLEAN IT...THE TRANSMISSION SERVICE IS THOROUGH ENOUGH....

I replied back that there is a filter within the pan (toyo calls it a valve body strainer) and that flushing will not remove debris from the pan bottom or magnets.

I may be old school but I thought the pan should be dropped and cleaned from all the break in debris. Those mesh filters/strainers can plug up and T-IV is not the most durable of fluids. Looks like I'll be doing the job myself this weekend but I'll use ESSO 3309 fluid (same as T-IV but can be had for $1 cheaper per litre). Is this ignorance on the dealers' part or perhaps they hope I'll be in for a transmission repair in the future?

In any event, I won't do business with them again.

 

[caravanmike]

i don't blame you! why would you turn business away? mind boggling!

 

[Nick R]

I would say probably a bit of both.

 

[xxch4osxx]

Thats not the first complaint about that dealership that I have heard of. Arguing with customers seems to be a common trait with the people who work there.

 

[JOD]

I'm guessing there's a reason for dealers not changing the pan, which is to reduce 'call-backs' and avoid problems doing the drop.

I've changed the pans on a couple of cars w/ZF transmissions, and to be honest, it's a finicky process--even when you're being careful: bolts get stripped (on removal and installation), properly-torqued bolts come loose resulting in pan leaks, bolts get cross-threaded during install (happens more easily on an aluminum shell transmission than you'd like to think).

I don't know what the Toyota transmission is like, or if it's as tempermental--but I'm guessing that's why many dealers may be shying away from it. They don't want the potential headache.

When I shopped around to try and get my CVT fluid changed in my Ford, half of the dealers told me that the SI was 100K (it's 60K), and the other half said 'we just drain and flush', despite the fact that there are actually two filters to change! I'm guessing it was for similar reasons--they don't want to deal with potential headaches. Turning down business seemed pretty odd to me. That didn't leave me with the warm fuzzies so I just did it myself. I ended up changing the one high-pressure filter but I'm still undecided as to whether or not the pan filter is worth changing.

If I only had 1 (pan) filter, I'd probably change it...but then again, I may just watch the pan for leaks and change it when it started leaking.

 

[tomcat27]

I agree, often times the service writers dont know or care about the service specifics for their cars. look how many dealers ignore the spec for 5W-20 and just fill with bulk 5w30. for years they filled with 10w30 when 5w30 was specd.

why dont dump the T-IV and use a synthetic?

 

[pennzoil_guru]

I have thought of switching to Amsoil's multi vehicle ATF as they CLAIM it meets T-IV. When I drain and replace the filter, can I use 4 litres of the amsoil or will it cause me issues as T-IV doesn't mix well with other fluids?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: pennzoil_guru
I have thought of switching to Amsoil's multi vehicle ATF as they CLAIM it meets T-IV. When I drain and replace the filter, can I use 4 litres of the amsoil or will it cause me issues as T-IV doesn't mix well with other fluids?


You can also check Canadian Tire and see if they have a Mobil fluid that meets it......

 

[3Toyotas]

Originally Posted By: pennzoil_guru
I have thought of switching to Amsoil's multi vehicle ATF as they CLAIM it meets T-IV. When I drain and replace the filter, can I use 4 litres of the amsoil or will it cause me issues as T-IV doesn't mix well with other fluids?


I have gotten a few emails from Amsoil directly on this very issue.

Their response was that their ATF is fully compatible with T-IV fluid, and a drain and fill is no problem. I've also got the same response on their new ATL ( WS ) compatible fluid.

So there is no problem mixing T-IV with Amsoil's ATF fluid.

 

[crinkles]

thank them for saving you some money. you started early, just keep up the drain and fills.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: pennzoil_guru
I had the transmission fluid flushed in my 2006 Sienna at the above dealer with 32000 miles. As the van now has 53000 miles on it, I filled out the service request form online for a pan drop/filter change as the pan has never been cleaned nor the filter changed.

Here was the dealer's reply. The caps are all theirs.

HI...WE FLUSHED YOUR TRANSMISSION FLUID AT 30000MILES...THERE IS NO FILTER TO BE REPLACED AND IS THERE A REASON YOU WANT THE FLUID CHANGED AGAIN?? IT SHOULD STILL BE CLEAN...WE NEVER DROP THE PAN AND CLEAN IT...THE TRANSMISSION SERVICE IS THOROUGH ENOUGH....


BMW says the same thing to their customers, except they don't even want to change the fluid. It's a "lifetime" fill and there's "no filter".

I'm not sure why you think your problem is unique. The problem is using dealers. Of course I understand that's a necessary evil many times while under warranty.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

JOD has nailed it. Based upon personal observations (of other people, I mostly own sticks) transmission service is the highest return rate of any service I've seen. The high incidence of pan warpage, or other problem causing a leak has caused the dealers/manufacturers to come up with a simple procedure to avoid that problem. Never mind the procedure is inadequate. The vehicle will be well out of warranty before the transmission fails.

The cynic in me says the dealership mechanics can't get away with billing 1 hour for 1/2 of an hour of actual work (like they do with most other procedures) without taking shortcuts when dropping the pan. So they don't want to do it.

 

[pennzoil_guru]

I can understand the return issue due to leaks etc. I should have mentioned that last September when they did the flush, the service adviser advised me to come back for a pan drop and filter change for the next service. In one year they have gone from offering it to denying it. I am gun-shy around transmissions due to a few snapped bolts when I did a transmission service years ago on my 1993 Sundance. My fault for reading inch pounds as foot pounds. I'll give it a whirl this weekend. I can get the gasket and filter aftermarket.

 

[3Toyotas]

Originally Posted By: crinkles
thank them for saving you some money. you started early, just keep up the drain and fills.


I will. Got another d&f to do this spring when the weather warms up a bit. Did my bro's tundra couple months ago with the trans hot. Uh........not a good idea cause i spilled some due to the check plug being too hot. Thought i could get a little more out, but to no evail.

Think i could get more out if i drained it cold?

 

[mechanicx]

It's funny how different manufactures take different approaches. GM only recommends dropping the pan and changing the filter (albeit at 100k for severe service) and no flushes. they also have a reusable pain gasket, nice. Of course they don't have a drain plug and use somewhat more of an actual filter. I think the reason GM doesn't recommend flushes is because they don't want any cleaners used, but exchanging all the fluid out with just ATF along with dropping the pan has to be the better way.

I think if you have a drain plug and just a strainer and you are changing/flushing all the fluid out at least every 30K miles it probably doesn't need the pan dropped. A lot of the clutch material will drain out and there shouldn't be that much debris anyway with that frequent of changes, plus the magnet will continue to catch stuff or might even be built into the drain plug. But that's if you drain the pan plus fluid exchange. Having said all that, I think dropping and cleaning the pan every other change would be a good idea.

Another option is to install a magnefine and flush it from there, and then the pan should never need dropped.