Newbie questions

[alloy]

Ok, just found this site a short time ago, and also have found out the benefits of good quality filters and synthetic oil. I've got an 87 camaro 305 TPI with 150k "hard" miles on it, and just switched over to synthetic oil and amsoil SDF76 (long) filter.

I've been reading a lot about bypass oil filters and am convinced this would be a great addition to my car, and several other vehicles I own.

I've been looking at the cost of the bypass kits from amsoil and other suppliers and found the BP-80A filter mount assembly w/restrictor for $14.50. This uses the BF90 filter element.

Is there any reason to purchase the $120 plus kits
when I can just buy these parts and make my own hoses up myself?

I've also seen (and used) remote filter mounts (I have one on my pickup for my auto trans) that are single and double mounts. Is there any reason that a person couldn't use a doulbe mount like these for a bypass filter install? Granted I'd have to make up a .039 restrictor, but that no big deal. I'm a machinist. The only problem I can see is if the bypass spin on filters won't mate up to the mount properly. Are the bypass filter elements just standard ford or gm stlye filters w/much finer filtering media?

Thanks
Dan

 

[Gary Allan]

The thread on the Amsoil bypass filter cartridges are 1"x16. Your mounts are more than likely 3/4 16 (Ford and Mopar) or 13/16 x 16 (Chevy).

The Amsoil threaded inserts fit in the Permacool single or dual mounts (Ford size) ..but the special inserts (which are 3/4x16 on one end and 1" x 16 on the other) are not available from Amsoil separately from buying the dual guard (or another bypass filter mount. You can try ..but I got nowhere with the tech email line.

I didn't check the site ..but whatever you can get for $14.95 isn't a filter mount ..at least from Amsoil. A filter maybe.

When you say "restrictor" do you mean the little valve that biases the flow to the bypass filter in a dual mount? This too appears to be absent from the parts list at Amsoil. I can see no need for an inline restrictor with a bypass filter. The filter itself should provide enough restriction to inhibit too much flow, IMHO, if tapped off of the sending unit port.

[ May 17, 2004, 01:20 AM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]

 

[alloy]

Go here

http://www.amsoil.com/bypassfilters/partslist.htm

And take a look at part# BK-203 "Filter Mount *** . w/.032 restrictor.

And, the special adapter you talked about is no big deal for me to make. I can easily program and make these parts on my turning center.

The restrictor I assume restricts oil flow so you don't lose pressure to critical engine parts when tapping into the oil galley for the bypass filter.

 

[RJCorazza]

I don't see how using a dual remote filter plate will work as a bypass filter. I'm not the 'motorhead' type, but I think 100% of the full flow oil passes through a standard dual remote (or single remote filter relocater). If the oil is retricted by a bypass element the engine will not get the full flow oil (??).
I used a PermaCool sandwich plate adapter that provides the oil for a bypass filter and a return. My understanding is that a small amount of the oil goes to the bypass filter because of the retriction orifice and the rest goes on to the full flow filter and back to the engine.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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And take a look at part# BK-203 "Filter Mount *** . w/.032 restrictor.

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I found it after I posted. But I'm uncertain what this is used for. When you look at "used for" ..you see a BF-90 ...which I can't find anywhere else on the site (via the search). IF it said BE-90 (it could be a typo (it says BF-90) I'd go for it too. Heck, if you can get that mount for 14.95 and put the BE-90 on it ..you're home free. I'd pay that much JUST for two of those ******* size inserts (3/4 16 on one end and 1 x 16 on the other.

If you can machine these items you basically can make ANY CHEAP Permacool mount into a bypass mount. The Amsoil mount is very high quality, however, compared to the Permacool.

The lines and stuff are cheap enough to get from Summit or Jegs..

I still say something is 'not right' here. My BMK-12 (just a dual mount) was over $86. The BMK-11 doesn't appear to have a seperate number of the "non-kit" version like the dual mount has. For some reason I find it a real "loop hole" that Amsoil would sell you five single mounts ..for less then one dual mount. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[alloy]

Gary,

I agree with your opinion. Doesn't make sense, but it's in black and white on the site and in my preffered customer price sheet. That's why I posted the question here. And, I found the BMK-11 listed under part# BK-93-mount assy. for $61.75 on page #10 of my catalog. Catalog date is 2-4-04 #G26.

I also saw the B"F"-90 typo listed under the BP-80A mount. Not sure about that one.

But the one thing that makes me think this is a bypass mount is that all these parts are listed under "By-Pass Oil Filter Replacement Parts and Oil Sending Unit Adapters".

I have one of the permacool mounts on my pickup fror a transmission filter and have had it there since 97. I also agree it's no where near the quality of the billet amsoil mount, but the permacool mount has worked for me perfectly for over 7 years now without any problems. If all I have to do is make up a few threaded sleeves to use a permacool mount, then it's no big deal to do so. I may order the BP-80A mount and a filter and see what it is just to satisfy my curiosity.

I'm not sure if in my cramped camaro engine bay I have room to mount a bypass filter, but if I don't have room on it I definately have room on my big block pickup to mount it. So, I'll call tech and see what they say. Will let you know.

 

[alloy]

Ok, just called tech and the BF-90 number was for an old kit that's not offered anymore. The BP-80A is in fact a mount for the bypass filters.

I'll order my parts today and should have them tomorrow. Will let you know what they look like after they come in.

 

[alloy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by RJCorazza:
I don't see how using a dual remote filter plate will work as a bypass filter. I'm not the 'motorhead' type, but I think 100% of the full flow oil passes through a standard dual remote (or single remote filter relocater). If the oil is retricted by a bypass element the engine will not get the full flow oil (??).
I used a PermaCool sandwich plate adapter that provides the oil for a bypass filter and a return. My understanding is that a small amount of the oil goes to the bypass filter because of the retriction orifice and the rest goes on to the full flow filter and back to the engine.

---

Ok, I'm new to this, but let me explian what we are talking about as I understand it. And anyone please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on my explination.

Ok, we are not talking about using the remote mount as a full flow filter. We are planing on tapping into an oil galley and run a small pressure line with a restrictor in the filter base to restrict the oil flow. The oil flow has to be resticted so the engine won't starve for oil to the critical engine parts. With the .032 restictor only a little pressure is taken to feed the bypass filter which does not harm the engine. From the amsoil info I read it takes 5 miles worth of driving to cycle all the engine oil through the bypass filter.

My full flow filter will still be in place and fully functional catching the bigger dirt particles. The bypass is just an added filter to further clean the oil. From what I read the reasoning behind adding a bypass filter is that if you make the primary filter element as fine as a bypass filter element is, then there won't be enough flow to feed the engine. The element is just too fine to support that much flow. But if the bypass filter totally plugged up, there would be no harm other than no extra cleaning effect from the extra filter.

Well I hope I've made our intentions a little cleaer to you, If not anyone who knows more or can give a better explination please feel free to jump in here and correct me.

 

[RJCorazza]

I see now... totally separate from the full flow filter. I incorrectly thought you were going to install a remote filter from the OEM full flow filter plate and screw in a bypass element. I installed my Motorguard bypass filter with the PermaCool adapter as mentioned. Without explicit instructions I would have never been able to come up with the combination of stuff needed. I should probably stay out of more technical discussions

 

[alloy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by RJCorazza:
I see now... totally separate from the full flow filter. I incorrectly thought you were going to install a remote filter from the OEM full flow filter plate and screw in a bypass element. I installed my Motorguard bypass filter with the PermaCool adapter as mentioned. Without explicit instructions I would have never been able to come up with the combination of stuff needed. I should probably stay out of more technical discussions

---

No, please don't stay out of tech discussions. I'm new to hi efficiency filter and bypass filter stuff also, and am asking questions myself trying to learn the best way for me to go with my application. Besides, someone else may see your question and find out something they didn't know. So keep asking away. I know I will

 

[1977c10phxdriver]

Another newbie here with my two cents worth.

I think some of the confusion came in when, in the first post, when you mentioned using a "dual mount".

You need to be careful which one you use. The Amsoil dual mount is designed for one full flow filter, and one bypass filter. The mount has the restrictior built in and will provide full flow through the main filter, and a small amount goes through the bypass filter.

If you use some of the other dual mounts, they are basically two spin-on filters in series, (or possible parralel)(sp?). Oil goes in one filter, across the mount and then through the other filter, then on to the engine. ANY restriction in this setup will restrict the whole flow of oil to the engine, NOT GOOD!!! LOL

Or I could have read the whole thing wrong and if thats so, just pass this post by!

Mark

 

[alloy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1977c10phxdriver:
Another newbie here with my two cents worth.

I think some of the confusion came in when, in the first post, when you mentioned using a "dual mount".

You need to be careful which one you use. The Amsoil dual mount is designed for one full flow filter, and one bypass filter. The mount has the restrictior built in and will provide full flow through the main filter, and a small amount goes through the bypass filter.

If you use some of the other dual mounts, they are basically two spin-on filters in series, (or possible parralel)(sp?). Oil goes in one filter, across the mount and then through the other filter, then on to the engine. ANY restriction in this setup will restrict the whole flow of oil to the engine, NOT GOOD!!! LOL

Or I could have read the whole thing wrong and if thats so, just pass this post by!

Mark

---

Mark,

Well thinking about it, you are probably right. I just mentioned in passing that I've seen dual mounts and never realized it might be a source of confusion. My plan was to possibly use two bypass filters on one mount, but from further reading I see that's not really necessary. One should do the trick.

And I also agree that if you used a dual mount setup other than the amsoil one designed specifically for full flow/bypass mounting and put a restrictor in it and use it fow a full flow filter and bypass, you would fry your engine in a hurry. As you mentioned, the amsoil dual mount is specially ported to take care of this problem.

Considering the BK-203 bypass mount is only $14.50, I'm not even going to consider adapting a standard permacool mount to work as a bypass filter. Just not worth my time to make the adapters. And I'm betting that for that price of $14.50 the amsoil mount is just a permacool mount with the special adapter in it. I've ordered the mount and a bypass filter, so will post pics when they come in. Hopefully tomorrow!

[ May 17, 2004, 07:08 PM: Message edited by: alloy ]

 

[alloy]

Just got my UPS ship notice from amsoil and my parts will be here tomorrow. I'll try to get some pics up then.

 

[Gary Allan]

Both the Amsoil and Permacool dual mounts work the filters in parallel. No problem running a bypass next to a full flow. That's what I do. The restrictor valve in the Amsoil dual mount restricts the oil to the full flow so that a greater share will go through the bypass. It will work without it ..but the bypass sees more flow with it.

A "dual guard" is Amsoil's Dual Cummins remote mount. It will fit full flow or bypass filters in the Cummins thread and gasket size.

 

[alloy]

Gary, I've not seen the amsoil daul mount yet, so don't understand if it's set up to replace the standard full flow filter why most of the oil would flow through the bypass filter. Th bypass element is so fine I'd think it would restrict flow to the engine.

Anyway, I received my order today with the filter mount, and the BK203 was substituted for the BP-80A. The BK203 cost me $50.70 and not $14.50. I called the warehouse and they have the BP-80A in stok and are shipping it out today, along with issuing a call tag for the BK203. They were very nice and so far any dealings I've had with amsoil have been very positive. You just have to make sure they send you the "old" style mounmt and not substitute the new "billet" one.

Agian, when I get the mount I'll take some pics and post them. Should be tomorrow.

 

[Dick in Falls Church]

There's a reason they went to the billet mount.
It is much higher quality. The old aluminum casting would/cold break under stressful use (such as on lawn mowers or diesels). Some also seemed to weep, even though no holes were obvious.
Be sure not to use any bypass element larger than the BE-90 with the old fitting. There was a beefed up fitting, but don't recall the number on that.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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o don't understand if it's set up to replace the standard full flow filter why most of the oil would flow through the bypass filter. Th bypass element is so fine I'd think it would restrict flow to the engine.

---

Hockey,

Look at the full flow as a 4 inch pipe ..look at the bypass as a 1/10 inch pipe. Both pipes see the same pressure and the flow will be distributed proportionally between them. Now the bypass (I'm using ficticious, fairytale, figures here) is 1/1600th of the area of the full flow...hence it would only have 1/1600th of the flow. So you put a restrictor valve ON THE FULL FLOW to reduce that vast gap between them and induce more oil to go through the bypass (about 15% I think) ..the restrictor valve is sprung ..so when the oil is cold ..it will allow the full flow to carry just about all the oil pump's output through it....when the oil warms ..and pressures are reduced ...and the oil flows much more freely though the bypass filter ..the valve biases more oil flow through it.


There...clear as mud!

quote:

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There was a beefed up fitting, but don't recall the number on that.

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****, if you can find that number ..you've just saved me a whole lot of money. I swapped my fittings into my Permacool since I already had it plumbed (to use the Cummins size filters) ..now I have a Dual Guard that I can only fit Ford thread filters on (the inserts that I took out of my Permacool).

Find this elusive part # ...I'll

you