New Z4

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Smokescreen
When I look at these collaborations I just see Toyota got lazy and didn't want to come up with a car solely from their own R&D. Its like the Chevy/Toyota Prism. Chevy couldn't make a reliable economy car to save their lives....so they borrowed from Toyota.

The Z4/Supra is a BMW/Toyota car. There is no Supra heritage there & like the BRZ/86 is a Subaru/Toyota. No AE86 heritage there.


The Supra didn't have to have an inline 6, it could have had a v6 or even v8 and the buyers would have forgiven them...the buyers wanted one thing.... a sporty Toyota that was purely Toyota. They could have obtained that by..stripping down a zippy Lexus unit and going from there.

V8 could not be done bcs. of weight.
Supra fan boys would of course not pay attention whether car has inline or V6. Toyota does not have nowhere close heritage like BMW when it comes to inline 6 engines, so if they offered engine that could be tuned, Supra enthusiasts would gladly buy it.
Problem is deeper than that. Only Lexus platform that is worth something is LFA. However, that is super car, and would cost too much and would require too many modifications.
Platforms on which RC is and others are too heavy, and for whatever reason these Lexuses have tendency to seriously understeer although they are RWD cars. I cannot see Toyota could use anything that would deliver what BMW can without going seriously deep into pockets, and still it would be questionable. Toyota is out of business making serious sports cars for masses for some time.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by wag123
more than 100hp/L

BMW did not need turbo for that in mid-1990's.

Show me this in writing.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by edyvw
in 1990's Toyota devoted much more money to diesel technology than hybrid.
Show me this in writing.

And while you are at it, you never answered this one.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by wag123
more than 100hp/L

BMW did not need turbo for that in mid-1990's.

Show me this in writing.


1992 BMW M70/2 6 liter V12 put out 618hp. It was a naturally aspirated race engine

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by wag123
more than 100hp/L

BMW did not need turbo for that in mid-1990's.

Show me this in writing.


1992 BMW M70/2 6 liter V12 put out 618hp. It was a race engine

A race engine? Really? Going by this standard, in the same year, Toyota has BMW beat... 1992 3.5L normally aspirated V10, 700hp, which is 200hp/L.
The M70 5.0L V12 street engine available to the buying public in the 750i and 850i was rated at 300hp, FAR below 100hp/L. Even the updated 5.4L V12 M73 was only rated at 326hp.

 

[RooflessVW]

Edy is referring to the S50B30 and S50B32. 106HP/L.

The M88, S14, S38, and S62 engines were all very close to the 100HP/L mark, and the S54, S65, and S85 all passed it.

All naturally aspirated, and all in street cars that you could buy from a dealer.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Edy is referring to the S50B30 and S50B32. 106HP/L.

The M88, S14, S38, and S62 engines were all very close to the 100HP/L mark, and the S54, S65, and S85 all passed it.

All naturally aspirated, and all in street cars that you could buy from a dealer.

Both the S50 3.0L and 3.2L were only rated at 240hp in the USA. All of the import makes produced higher horsepower variants for sale outside the USA.
The S54, S65, and S85 were not produced in the 90's.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by wag123


A race engine? Really? Going by this standard, in the same year, Toyota has BMW beat... 1992 3.5L normally aspirated V10, 700hp, which is 200hp/L.
The M70 5.0L V12 street engine available to the buying public in the 750i and 850i was rated at 300hp, FAR below 100hp/L. Even the updated 5.4L V12 M73 was only rated at 326hp.


No reason to get testy. You asked.

Besides the M12 I4 turbo put out over 1000hp for F1 back in the 1980's.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Edy is referring to the S50B30 and S50B32. 106HP/L.

The M88, S14, S38, and S62 engines were all very close to the 100HP/L mark, and the S54, S65, and S85 all passed it.

All naturally aspirated, and all in street cars that you could buy from a dealer.

Both the S50 3.0L and 3.2L were only rated at 240hp in the USA. All of the import makes produced higher horsepower variants for sale outside the USA.
The S54, S65, and S85 were not produced in the 90's.

The S50 was never sold in the USA. The S50B30 and S50B32 were rated at 320 and 340 HP respectively. The rest of the world got this engine in the E36 M3. Surely the rest of the world counts, right?

The US E36 M3 used the S52. Doesn't change the fact that the S50 did/does exist and was/is installed in street cars. Doesn't change the fact that nearly EVERY naturally aspirated ///M engine has been right around 100HP/L.

I also know quite well when the other engines were made, thank you. BMW has been consistently making performance street cars since the 2002tii... Toyota hasn't. Maybe that's why Toyota phoned the Supra in? Cheaper for them to make 20% of a car than the whole thing, and they get to cash in on the 90's nostalgia that is so big right now.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by wag123
A race engine? Really? Going by this standard, in the same year, Toyota has BMW beat... 1992 3.5L normally aspirated V10, 700hp, which is 200hp/L.
The M70 5.0L V12 street engine available to the buying public in the 750i and 850i was rated at 300hp, FAR below 100hp/L. Even the updated 5.4L V12 M73 was only rated at 326hp.
No reason to get testy. You asked.
Sorry.
I was asking edy to back up his statement.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
The S50 was never sold in the USA. The S50B30 and S50B32 were rated at 320 and 340 HP respectively. The rest of the world got this engine in the E36 M3. Surely the rest of the world counts, right?
That isn't what it says here... http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/s50.html

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
The S50 was never sold in the USA. The S50B30 and S50B32 were rated at 320 and 340 HP respectively. The rest of the world got this engine in the E36 M3. Surely the rest of the world counts, right?
That isn't what it says here... http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/s50.html



http://mywikimotors.com/bmw-s50b30/ 295hp

http://mywikimotors.com/bmw-s50b32/ 321hp

In any case I don't see why you're taking this so personally. Toyota's main automotive customer base does not demand a high performance engine and that's okay. . They're a huge and successful company.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by edyvw
in 1990's Toyota devoted much more money to diesel technology than hybrid.
Show me this in writing.

And while you are at it, you never answered this one.

Toyota in mid 1990's was investing heavily in diesel plants. The reason is that 97% of the planet, that does not live in the US, uses diesel engines a lot (and still does). There is a thing called "rest of the world" where economic realities etc. are more conducive to ICE and not hybrids.
Toyota had huge push of D-4D engines in order to catch up with European makes such as PSA, Renault, VW etc. Some were sort of successful (3.0 D-4D) and some were abysmal (1.4 and 2.2). Other parts of the world were getting diesel plants that are far less sophisticated due to lack of any kind of emission standards.
As for BMW, others answered to you.
There were different power outputs of those engines in different parts of the world. That mostly depended on the:
1. Market realities.
2. Emission standards.
3. Fuel quality.

But to answer your question, E36 M version in Europe was first introduced with 286hp, which was in 1996 bumped to 321hp, I think 4hp short of Toyota Supra powered by sequential turbos.