New Z4

[wings&wheels]

Looking at a new sedan or coupe for the Wife and saw the new Z4 in the showroom. Beautiful car, much better looking than the earlier generation (which is a pretty car), it appears lower and wider.

But, no manual transmission is available....sad. Maybe I need to get with the times.

 

[RamFan]

While this video is mainly about the Supra side of development, it's a great watch for those interested in the Z4.

 

[ragtoplvr]

tell me do they still use biodegradable wiring and plastic that will begin to fail in 10 years or less. This is one reason why I avoid German made cars.

If you are trading often or buy new with warranty and extensions then fine.

Rod

 

[wings&wheels]

Interesting video, thanks. Little propagandist, but very good. I like the Supra, quite a combination of styling hints from Ferrari, McLaren and others and a bit more subdued than other Japanese manufacturers' halo cars. I'll have to drive the Z and report back. I'm not in the market for a newer sportscar, but if I was, there aren't many more choices for me then Porsche at this point.

 

[wings&wheels]

Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
tell me do they still use biodegradable wiring and plastic that will begin to fail in 10 years or less. This is one reason why I avoid German made cars.

If you are trading often or buy new with warranty and extensions then fine.

Rod



That issue was addressed long ago. BMW interiors were affected badly, early e36's were the worst I saw, but was not an issue by the mid-late 90's. I don't remember Porsche being affected that much. I had a '98 328is, Wife had a '97 A4 and both aged very well.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted by wings&wheels
Looking at a new sedan or coupe for the Wife and saw the new Z4 in the showroom. Beautiful car, much better looking than the earlier generation (which is a pretty car), it appears lower and wider.

But, no manual transmission is available....sad. Maybe I need to get with the times.


Up until my M235i, every one of "my" BMW s has had three pedals. The thing is, on the track the ZF 8HP shifts exactly the same way I would 99% of the time. I still like a manual behind engines that make maximum torque at high rpm(such as the M42 in my Club Sport), but with the B58 in the Z4 peak torque is made from virtually off idle so I'm good with letting the 8HP do the heavy lifting. I need a Coupe for track days, otherwise I would consider a Z4. The Supra is nice, but I would probably go with an M2C.

 

[BigD1]

Kyle Busch took the Supra for a ride around Charlotte Motor Speedway. I want one!

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
tell me do they still use biodegradable wiring and plastic that will begin to fail in 10 years or less. This is one reason why I avoid German made cars.

If you are trading often or buy new with warranty and extensions then fine.

Rod


Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
tell me do they still use biodegradable wiring and plastic that will begin to fail in 10 years or less. This is one reason why I avoid German made cars.

If you are trading often or buy new with warranty and extensions then fine.

Rod


Yep. Basically any part sold in the EU is going to biodegrade. It's part of their "end if life" initiative. I've posted about this..

Rodents love to chew on the soy-based wiring. https://bmwtechnician.com/2019/01/10/rat-chew/

 

[ragtoplvr]

On my 2009 BMW R1200GS I have a number of plastic bits that are failing despite being inside when not being ridden.

The boot over a suspension joint. The sheath over the brake lines. The cover over parts of the very expensive electric adjusting shocks, the cover over the wire harness. Throttle shaft Pulleys. Fuel line connectors. And that is just for starters. Nothing rides quite like a GS But these "minor" but expensive to fix parts failures drive me nutz.

Next bike lot likely to be BMW.

Rod

 

[wag123]

The part about how Toyota engineers tested/checked/analyzed the quality of individual components that BMW had engineered/manufactured and sent many of them back to BMW to be redesigned to meet Toyota's tougher quality/reliability/durability standards is VERY telling about the basic philosophy of the two companies. Maybe BMW will learn something from Toyota about how to engineer/manufacture parts that will last the life of the car, not just until shortly after the end of the warranty period.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by wag123
The part about how Toyota engineers tested/checked/analyzed the quality of individual components that BMW had engineered/manufactured and sent many of them back to BMW to be redesigned to meet Toyota's tougher quality/reliability/durability standards is VERY telling about the basic philosophy of the two companies. Maybe BMW will learn something from Toyota about how to engineer/manufacture parts that will last the life of the car, not just until shortly after the end of the warranty period.

That is ABSOLUTE BS!
So, let me get this strait. Toyota is buying B48/58 engines from BMW because they are not as good as Toyota's? You do know that Toyota engineers said two years ago that they decided to go with BMW because they lost know-how how to develop engines necessary for cars like Supra?
So Toyota is saying: we do not have know-how to develope/make these engines, but once we buy it from you, we will test to see are they good? Not only that, Toyota is buying diesel engines from BMW because their diesel engines in Europe (1.4 D-4D and 2.2. D-4D) had probably the most horrific reliability of all diesel engines offered in Europe. Do they test them too? To check whether they are good although their 2.2 D-4D could not make 100k km without pistons disintegrating.
And, both Z4 and Supra are made in the SAME factory, a BMW factory in Austria.
Maybe Toyota will learn how to make FINALLY something that does not remind people of microwave when they driving it. I yet to drive BMW that is not assembled better than ANY Toyota on the market.
Edit: If their quality control is anything like in SIenna people can expect: failing brakes, constantly rattling windows, freezing to death on cold mornings, and plastic and steering wheel material that after 55k looks like my BMW E34 when it had 485k km when I sold it.

 

[PimTac]

Someone got triggered.

I'd rather drive a vehicle that is dependable and long lasting versus a BMW that is always in the shop for this and that.

Bring
More
Wallet

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Someone got triggered.

I'd rather drive a vehicle that is dependable and long lasting versus a BMW that is always in the shop for this and that.

Bring
More
Wallet

LOL, IDK, my SIenna was more in the shop in 6 months than BMW in 3 years.
But, from that video it is clear:
Toyota does not know how to make an engine for Supra.
Toyota does not know how to make transmission for Supra (well that is obvious considering debacle with their 8 speed).
Toyota does not know how to make suspension.
Toyota does not know how to make LSD.
Toyota does not know how to make anything resembling iDrive, hence they use exact version from BMW.
BUT, they will tell BMW how to do it.

Nothing stopped Toyota from using their 2.0T engine instead of B48 2.0T from BMW. If Toyota's engine is "better" quality, they could fit 2.0T that is currently in Lexus. Wonder why not?

That video is apologetic to customers of Toyota, so that they could see that Toyota did "something." This reminds me of my friend when I said that Sienna is absolute POS when it comes to quality, and she says: IDK, my Lexus 200h (or whatever) never had an issue. Is aid: didn't you twice changed batteries? She: yeah, but Toyota covered it.

 

[4wd]

The GMC I just traded in was bought new and zero times in shop for the 8 years I beat it like a drum … Every brand has winners and other …

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by 4WD
The GMC I just traded in was bought new and zero times in shop for the 8 years I beat it like a drum … Every brand has winners and other …

Sure, but this video is ridiculous.
What happened when they send parts to Toyota? Akiro told Hans: sorry mate, we do not do that like that. Our exhaustive experience on Camry, none the less, sport edition, begs other solutions.
BMW does testings, ALONE, but point is they are sending data to Toyota. What tells me is: Toyota keep hands out of this, we will finish it, and then you can turn it into Corolla.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by PimTac
Someone got triggered.

I'd rather drive a vehicle that is dependable and long lasting versus a BMW that is always in the shop for this and that.

Bring
More
Wallet

LOL, IDK, my SIenna was more in the shop in 6 months than BMW in 3 years.
But, from that video it is clear:
Toyota does not know how to make an engine for Supra.
Toyota does not know how to make transmission for Supra (well that is obvious considering debacle with their 8 speed).
Toyota does not know how to make suspension.
Toyota does not know how to make LSD.
Toyota does not know how to make anything resembling iDrive, hence they use exact version from BMW.
BUT, they will tell BMW how to do it.

Nothing stopped Toyota from using their 2.0T engine instead of B48 2.0T from BMW. If Toyota's engine is "better" quality, they could fit 2.0T that is currently in Lexus. Wonder why not?

That video is apologetic to customers of Toyota, so that they could see that Toyota did "something." This reminds me of my friend when I said that Sienna is absolute POS when it comes to quality, and she says: IDK, my Lexus 200h (or whatever) never had an issue. Is aid: didn't you twice changed batteries? She: yeah, but Toyota covered it.





I rest my case.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by PimTac
Someone got triggered.

I'd rather drive a vehicle that is dependable and long lasting versus a BMW that is always in the shop for this and that.

Bring
More
Wallet

LOL, IDK, my SIenna was more in the shop in 6 months than BMW in 3 years.
But, from that video it is clear:
Toyota does not know how to make an engine for Supra.
Toyota does not know how to make transmission for Supra (well that is obvious considering debacle with their 8 speed).
Toyota does not know how to make suspension.
Toyota does not know how to make LSD.
Toyota does not know how to make anything resembling iDrive, hence they use exact version from BMW.
BUT, they will tell BMW how to do it.

Nothing stopped Toyota from using their 2.0T engine instead of B48 2.0T from BMW. If Toyota's engine is "better" quality, they could fit 2.0T that is currently in Lexus. Wonder why not?

That video is apologetic to customers of Toyota, so that they could see that Toyota did "something." This reminds me of my friend when I said that Sienna is absolute POS when it comes to quality, and she says: IDK, my Lexus 200h (or whatever) never had an issue. Is aid: didn't you twice changed batteries? She: yeah, but Toyota covered it.





I rest my case.

Why? bcs BMW showed Toyota how vehicles are made and not average refrigerators?

 

[4wd]

Hey, maybe they could glue those ground effect parts on the Corolla rocker panel … !

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by wag123
The part about how Toyota engineers tested/checked/analyzed the quality of individual components that BMW had engineered/manufactured and sent many of them back to BMW to be redesigned to meet Toyota's tougher quality/reliability/durability standards is VERY telling about the basic philosophy of the two companies. Maybe BMW will learn something from Toyota about how to engineer/manufacture parts that will last the life of the car, not just until shortly after the end of the warranty period.

That is ABSOLUTE BS!
So, let me get this strait. Toyota is buying B48/58 engines from BMW because they are not as good as Toyota's? You do know that Toyota engineers said two years ago that they decided to go with BMW because they lost know-how how to develop engines necessary for cars like Supra?
So Toyota is saying: we do not have know-how to develope/make these engines, but once we buy it from you, we will test to see are they good? Not only that, Toyota is buying diesel engines from BMW because their diesel engines in Europe (1.4 D-4D and 2.2. D-4D) had probably the most horrific reliability of all diesel engines offered in Europe. Do they test them too? To check whether they are good although their 2.2 D-4D could not make 100k km without pistons disintegrating.
And, both Z4 and Supra are made in the SAME factory, a BMW factory in Austria.
Maybe Toyota will learn how to make FINALLY something that does not remind people of microwave when they driving it. I yet to drive BMW that is not assembled better than ANY Toyota on the market.
Edit: If their quality control is anything like in SIenna people can expect: failing brakes, constantly rattling windows, freezing to death on cold mornings, and plastic and steering wheel material that after 55k looks like my BMW E34 when it had 485k km when I sold it.

Did you even watch the video edyvw? Go back and watch it from 8:14 to 9:31.
It clearly stated in the video that the Toyota engineers knew about BMW's reliability problems and that they were not "in line" with Toyota's reliability standards. When Toyota was doing their evaluation and testing of the parts BMW designed and manufactured for the new engine and car, thousands of them did not meet Toyota's quality/reliability/durability standards and were sent back to BMW for redesign/improvement. BMW was "taken aback" by this revelation but correlates well with my personal experience with thousands of BMWs and Toyotas over the better part of my 45 years in the car business. BMW tends to not pay a whole lot of attention to the long-term reliability/durability of their products/parts, just the end performance of their vehicles while they are relatively new (which is world class). For as long as I can remember, BMW has had problems with parts that fail prematurely, and sells replacement parts of identical design that will also fail prematurely (for exorbitant prices). Thank goodness for the aftermarket where there are improved non-OEM parts available for BMW products that answer the need for replacement parts that won't fail prematurely. As for Toyota's involvement in the development of BMW's new engine and car, IMO this will have a positive impact on the long term reliability/durability of all BMW products going forward.

 

[PimTac]

Wag, you have to understand, edy is a BMW and VAG fanboy. They can do no wrong and every other manufacturer makes appliances.

Just mention anything negative about German engineering and you will get the wrath as exhibited above.