New "Worlds Longest Airline Flight"

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billt460

billt460

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Newark, New Jersey to Singapore. 18 hours and 45 minutes. It looks like the flight will use the new Airbus A-350. It will take place almost straight north out of Newark, over the North Pole, then proceed south to Singapore. I wonder how much the heading varies on a flight like that, in order to make up for rotation of the Earth underneath them? Like when a sniper has to account for the Coriolis Effect when making a long shot. The Earth will rotate almost 3/4's of a revolution in that time. Or does it have no effect at all?

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/singa...-204922570.html
 
Didn’t they fly this route before with the Airbus 340-xxx?

Pretty long flight. I’ve been on 16 hour flights, that’s long enough.
 
Interesting question. I think what will matter more, and this is just first thoughts, so not much thinking involved is the relative movement of the medium of travel (air) vs the ground.

It's probably a factor, but not as big as we might imagine due to some physics I've long forgotten from 30 years ago.

I do know the Apollo program had to aim for where the moon would be about 3 days after they left Earth because of its orbital travel.

I suspect the trip back to earth was a bit easier to calculate, but the Earth would be moving as well as it is in orbit around the Sun.

Great, now I won't sleep tonight thinking about this
smile.gif
 
I remember our grade school teaching us about the Coriolis effect and that airplanes had to account for it.

I don't think it's a serious issue since the atmosphere moves with Earth's rotation. Just aim the airplane and fly. There are enough navigation aids to let the airplane know if it's off course.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Newark, New Jersey to Singapore. 18 hours and 45 minutes. It looks like the flight will use the new Airbus A-350. It will take place almost straight north out of Newark, over the North Pole, then proceed south to Singapore. I wonder how much the heading varies on a flight like that, in order to make up for rotation of the Earth underneath them? Like when a sniper has to account for the Coriolis Effect when making a long shot. The Earth will rotate almost 3/4's of a revolution in that time. Or does it have no effect at all?

The rotation of the Earth has no effect. The atmosphere rotates with the Earth.
 
Originally Posted By: Dave1027
The rotation of the Earth has no effect. The atmosphere rotates with the Earth.


But when they are over the North Pole, Singapore is in relative motion due to the Earths rotation. Because it is at the equator. In comparison to the Pole, which is relatively, stationary under them. So wouldn't their heading change in order to take that into account?

I'm sure modern navigation systems and flight computers calculate all of this. They punch in their destination and go. But it really makes you wonder how they did it in the old, "stick and rudder" days of flying. The Apollo flights still amaze me. Especially when you consider how much of the calculations were done long hand with a slide rule. And with what were archaic computers by todays standards. The old IBM 360's they used at NASA back then were the size of a large refrigerator, and didn't do half of what a $10.00 hand held calculator does today.

Even Apollo 13, with all of it's problems, landed only 4 miles from the Iwo Jima. Unbelievable. And you have to remember they hit the atmosphere traveling 7 miles per second.
 
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Didn’t they fly this route before with the Airbus 340-xxx?

They did - Singapore got rid of the A340-500 since it was a gas guzzler compared to a 777-300ER. And it looks like the A340-500 was more of a stunt for Airbus to market themselves to Singapore and Virgin Atlantic who wanted a long-range plane but not the capacity of the 744/777. It was more or less a Rolls-Royce engined A340 with some other tweaks.

The new A350XWB is promising.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Newark, New Jersey to Singapore. 18 hours and 45 minutes. It looks like the flight will use the new Airbus A-350. It will take place almost straight north out of Newark, over the North Pole, then proceed south to Singapore. I wonder how much the heading varies on a flight like that, in order to make up for rotation of the Earth underneath them? Like when a sniper has to account for the Coriolis Effect when making a long shot. The Earth will rotate almost 3/4's of a revolution in that time. Or does it have no effect at all?

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/singa...-204922570.html


Perfect flight to take if anyone is going to the Singapore GP who lives in the Northeast.
 
The longest i’ve flown was houston dubai, 16.5hrs. Managed to get drunk 3 times lol. Great times!!
 
I think my ability to sleep on that flight would trump any interest in the Coriolis effect. 18 hours in the air is a lot better than a trip I took from Zurich to San Francisco. Seven hours to New York with turbulence, 4 hour layover at JFK, and then weather delayed for 2 1/2 hours w/ no AC before the final 5 hour leg to SF. No flights over 8 hours in one day from that point forward for me.
 
Oddly, I think that is still quicker than Lima Peru to St Louis, MO. Of course the delays I had were equipment availability and weather related. But still, over 24 hours to get back home from Peru when it should have been about 1/2 or less.

Then there was the 14 hours from STL to DEN, by plane. That's a story...
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
To make this even more confusing, the Earth rotates at 1,000 MPH at the Equator. (Singapore is only 50 miles from the Equator). Where as the land under them at the North Pole is stationary, and only turning underneath them as they pass over it.

Do you really think the Earth will be moving 1000 mph under the airplane as it nears the equator? As we said, the atmosphere moves with the Earth. Any analogies to spacecraft aren't worth comparing.

Some people aren't able to comprehend this concept.
 
I did mention spaceflight, but only to point out a scenario where it makes a big difference. Flying in our atmosphere, if it makes any difference, it's relatively small.

Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: billt460
To make this even more confusing, the Earth rotates at 1,000 MPH at the Equator. (Singapore is only 50 miles from the Equator). Where as the land under them at the North Pole is stationary, and only turning underneath them as they pass over it.

Do you really think the Earth will be moving 1000 mph under the airplane as it nears the equator? As we said, the atmosphere moves with the Earth. Any analogies to spacecraft aren't worth comparing.

Some people aren't able to comprehend this concept.
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Do you really think the Earth will be moving 1000 mph under the airplane as it nears the equator? As we said, the atmosphere moves with the Earth...... Some people aren't able to comprehend this concept.


No, I'm not saying that. I said when the plane is flying over the Poles the Earth is in motion at the equator in relationship to it. The Coriolis Effect is real. If long range shooters have to deal with it with bullets in flight, why wouldn't aircraft?

https://scijinks.gov/coriolis/

"It affects weather patterns, it affects ocean currents, and it even affects air travel."

http://www.classzone.com/books/earth_science/terc/content/visualizations/es1904/es1904page01.cfm

"A plane flying from Anchorage, Alaska directly toward Miami, Florida would miss its target due to the Coriolis Effect. In reality, pilots take the Coriolis Effect into account so they do not miss their targets."

But you are correct. Some people are not able to comprehend this concept.
 
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