New vehicle has 5 engine idle hours

[OVERKILL]

The real issue came about when they integrated MDS. These lifters use oil controlled locking pins. They are much more intricate and have tighter clearances, and need a clean oil.

It's not a viscosity issue, and it's not an MDS issue. The early MDS HEMI's didn't have lifter failure, it wasn't until they introduced VCT, which involved some other valvetrain modifications, which I believe included updated lifters, that the issues started appearing. 2010/2011/2012 were "peak" years, but anything pre-2018 is susceptible, and I've heard anecdotes of the odd post-2018 experiencing it, but I've never seen one torn down to actually show the newer, updated lifters failing.

There are a ton of early MDS HEMI's still on the road, like my wife's '06 Charger R/T, that didn't have VCT. It's really quite interesting in terms of the whole manifestation of this issue and fingers being pointed at different things (oh, the lifters aren't being oiled! being a classic) when there wasn't a lot of root cause analysis being done. It was @Team Zero, who no longer posts on here, who is/was a dealer tech that shared the failure mechanism, including pictures of what fails, and why.

 

[OVERKILL]

I'm aware of the needle bearing issue after looking at failure posts on the Ramforum.com I believe they changed the lifters in 2018 to have larger diameter bearings. Not sure which year you had.

I'm not following how a lighter oil would move faster. Wouldn't a heavier weight oil increase oil pressure faster? Either way, there is not a huge difference between 5W-20 and 5W-30 but my statement was based on the fact that nothing in the engine changed to support this like some of the newer vehicles having problems with bearing clearances and machining debris.

Some engines can tolerate a step down in visc, if they are suitably robust (Ford Modular, the 5.7L HEMI clearly) with a rigid bottom-end and sufficiently controlled oil temperatures. Ford was really the pioneer in this, back-spec'ing most, but not all of their engines to 5W-20 from 5W-30. There were a few that they didn't back-spec, implying that their in-house testing had determined there were potential issues there.

The Modular had a considerably more robust bottom-end than the Windsor, and, while it spec'd 5W-30 originally, they were all back-spec'd to 5W-20 and the new ones all called for 5W-20 and it certainly didn't meaningfully impact longevity, as they are one of the longest lasting engines ever built, regardless of how much abuse is thrown at them.

Of course one aspect of this was that the Modular wasn't a high power density engine either. Even the 320HP Cobra 32V mill was only 69HP/L, and this, coincidentally, is exactly where the 5.7L HEMI lands too, while the SRT 6.4L bumps that up to 76HP/L.

 

[The Critic]

I think in the next few years you're going to start seeing a lot of manufacturers rolling back on all of these factory water thin oil recommendations. GM has already done it, because they are experiencing an unusually high failure rate with their 6.2L, V8. They've gone from an original factory spec of 0W-20, to a 0W-40.

Source? My understanding is the 0W-40 recommendation is only for a certain batch of engines that was recalled. Current 2026MY still specifies 0W-20.

https://contentdelivery.ext.gm.com/..._Denali_OM_en_US_U_19431985C_2026JUN08_3P.pdf

 

[QwikKota]

Some engines can tolerate a step down in visc, if they are suitably robust (Ford Modular, the 5.7L HEMI clearly) with a rigid bottom-end and sufficiently controlled oil temperatures. Ford was really the pioneer in this, back-spec'ing most, but not all of their engines to 5W-20 from 5W-30. There were a few that they didn't back-spec, implying that their in-house testing had determined there were potential issues there.

The Modular had a considerably more robust bottom-end than the Windsor, and, while it spec'd 5W-30 originally, they were all back-spec'd to 5W-20 and the new ones all called for 5W-20 and it certainly didn't meaningfully impact longevity, as they are one of the longest lasting engines ever built, regardless of how much abuse is thrown at them.

Of course one aspect of this was that the Modular wasn't a high power density engine either. Even the 320HP Cobra 32V mill was only 69HP/L, and this, coincidentally, is exactly where the 5.7L HEMI lands too, while the SRT 6.4L bumps that up to 76HP/L.

Definitely not arguing they can tolerate the change, just stating it was not to lengthen the lifespan of the engines. Other factors may influence this as well as manufacturing, quality control, etc. Some can run on mineral oil no doubt. I cut my teeth wrenching on V8's that used 10W-30 and we beat the crap out of them on the road course and drag strip, so it's odd to see a decent sized V8 calling for 0W-20 or 5W-20.

 

[andrew_j]

Was it in snowy area for a winter? They put on hazards and run cars as they sweep hundreds of cars off.

 

[PandaBear]

The warranty is based on miles/time....am I correct? 3 years or 36,000 miles bumper to bumper and 5 years powertrain? Something like that?
Why worry?
And if you didn't buy an extended warranty I would buy one.

It starts on the day it is sold.

My 3 years warranty on my 2014 car starts in 2015 because I bought it in 2015.

 

[CKN]

It starts on the day it is sold.

My 3 years warranty on my 2014 car starts in 2015 because I bought it in 2015.

Yes-I am aware of that having purchased many new vehicles. The best deal is a certified used from many manufacturers. The certified warranty is longer than the 3year/36,000 miles.

 

[PandaBear]

The best deal is a certified used from many manufacturers. The certified warranty is longer than the 3year/36,000 miles.

As always "it depends on the price". I have often seen CPO sold for just slightly below new price and that makes new car the better deal. I bought my "left over" new car almost at CPO price of a used car that was 2 years older, because the dealer wanted it gone. I had to drive 2 hours out of my way to buy it though.

 

[billt460]

Source? My understanding is the 0W-40 recommendation is only for a certain batch of engines that was recalled. Current 2026MY still specifies 0W-20.

https://contentdelivery.ext.gm.com/..._Denali_OM_en_US_U_19431985C_2026JUN08_3P.pdf

It's a risk vs. reward type of thing. And it's the same gamble for the consumer as it is for the manufacturer. The goal for the manufacturer was to use the thinnest oil possible, for the best fuel economy, to gain the most $CAFE$ credits. Period. That's it. Otherwise this whole oil game never would have started.

But at the same time have the engine live past the warranty period. It's quite apparent they either have reached that limit, or else, (in the case of the GM 6.2L), have passed it.

Hence the factory recommendation to walk back thin oil, and increase viscosity after all the expensive failures they've had to deal with. Because let's face it, they sure as hell didn't go to thicker oil to make matters worse.

Toyota has always said right in their owners manuals, through this whole thin oil game, that a heavier viscosity may be a better choice if the vehicle is operated under "severe" conditions. They're very careful with the wording so as not to use, "recommend"..... Again because of CAFE.

Other nonsense in the Toyota owner's manual states that if 0W-16 oil is not available, 0W-20 can be used.... But must be switched back to 0W-16 at the next oil change.... Or else what?

In one sentence they tell you that a higher viscosity "may be" a better choice. Then in the next paragraph they tell you if you use it, you have to switch back at the next oil change..... Or else what?

This has all become a big, contradicting word game, so as not to upset CAFE, but still "suggest" that these water thin oils may not be the best choice over the long haul. Then naturally the whole "thinner is better" crowd all feed off this like starving cattle.

And let's face it. with the GM 6.2L V8, you can argue all day long if it's a good or bad engine design. But again, GM didn't go to a higher viscosity oil because they thought it would be a worse choice.

In hot weather the only positive with these ultra thin oils, is an almost unmeasurable fuel mileage increase for the average consumer....... At the expense of the very possible reality of shorter engine life...... Even though someone always seems to know someone's buddies girlfriends cousin, who's engine lasted X number of miles on it.