New to the game...OW40 Amsoil vs Castrol

[shanneba]

Here is some more info based on your 10 minute commute.

IF your oil gets to 70C/158F during your 10 minute commute (might, might not with 6.9 quarts)

With Amsoil oils your oil viscosity at 70C / 158 F would be:

0w-20 17.6 cSt (equal to a 50 weight motor oil@212F)
0w-30 21.5 cSt (equal to a 50 weight motor oil@212F)
0w-40 31.1 cSt (equal to a 70 weight motor oil@212F) 60 weight stops at 26.1

Even with the turbo in a 10 minute commute I doubt your oil would get to the HTHS temp of 150 C / 302 F.

I would suggest changing your oil at half the BMW OCI because of all the short trips.

I would also suggest you get a Battery Tender 4 or 5 amp charger and connect it at least overnight every two weeks (maybe even weekly) as the short trips will not fully charge your battery on a consistent basis.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: shanneba
Here is some more info based on your 10 minute commute.

IF your oil gets to 70C/158F during your 10 minute commute (might, might not with 6.9 quarts)

With Amsoil oils your oil viscosity at 70C / 158 F would be:

0w-20 17.6 cSt (equal to a 50 weight motor oil@212F)
0w-30 21.5 cSt (equal to a 50 weight motor oil@212F)
0w-40 31.1 cSt (equal to a 70 weight motor oil@212F) 60 weight stops at 26.1

Even with the turbo in a 10 minute commute I doubt your oil would get to the HTHS temp of 150 C / 302 F.

I would suggest changing your oil at half the BMW OCI because of all the short trips.

I would also suggest you get a Battery Tender 4 or 5 amp charger and connect it at least overnight every two weeks (maybe even weekly) as the short trips will not fully charge your battery on a consistent basis.

It will not, but it will reach temp. of 90-100c.
My diesel reaches 90c in 10 min, not to mention gas.
For 150c, it will never reach in the city, open road, Texas or Arizona heat, but it will if you push car very hard or up the mountain passes to some 120-130c.
That is why for the U.S. 0W20 is OK, but in Europe LL-01 and LL-04 are still go to oils!
This is American thing and BMW engineers already complain about issues on engines due to strictly city driving, short commuting etc.
So it is driving style issue.
And no, BMW is not phasing out LL-01. It is maybe phasing out here in the U.S. dealerships, but LL-01 is staying as specification and engines are built around that.
Same is for Japanese car. Many Japanese cars that are running on 0W20, are specd. for 5W40 in Europe.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Seventh
Originally Posted By: eksigned
this is GREAT information. appreciate the knowledge. BMW Riverside, as I've been informed, uses Castrol 5W30 in all their BMW cars (non-M). I wanted to use something along the same lines to prevent going back and forth between weights. I was planning on changing oil changes between the included intervals. will continue hunting!


No BMW dealership uses castrol oil since 2015. It's all made by pennzoil (shell) now. Your car will most likely call for 0w20 (LL-14FE+) or possibly 0w30 (LL-01FE). You won't find many (if any) oils that carry those certifications besides factory stuff.

Dealer will absolutely not put 5w30 in it. LL-01 is being phased out.

For a short tripper with occasional romps and shorter oci intervals I would stick with the 0w20 unless the sticker under the hood calls for the 0w30.

I see turbo bmw and Mini cars with b/38/48/58 come in having been run absolutely ragged in 110+ degree heat after 15k+ mi between services running the 0w20 sauce and they are fine. Oil level isn't even low.

For in-between services just use the same factory lube the dealer uses or pennzoil ultra platinum. Many believe it's the same as the bmw oils but just don't carry the official certification on the label.

That is not indication of protection of engine.
Like I said numerous times, LL-01 and LL-04 are still go to oils in Europe, where these engines see high speed. So B38/48/58 are built for heavier oils. BMW is just doing what Japanese and American manufacturers are doing for two decades, specifying oil based on market conditions. However, one thing is to run 0W20 in Honda Pilot, another in turbo charged BMW.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Like I said numerous times, LL-01 and LL-04 are still go to oils in Europe, where these engines see high speed. So B38/48/58 are built for heavier oils. BMW is just doing what Japanese and American manufacturers are doing for two decades, specifying oil based on market conditions. However, one thing is to run 0W20 in Honda Pilot, another in turbo charged BMW.

I'd stick with BMW recommendations here in the U.S. which call for 0w20 or 0w30 oils.
Sounds like you're accustomed to another country's long time marketing habits.
Trust BMW on this issue. Use their recommended oil.
If racing/tracking/autocrossing, then you can assume oil temperatures are not well controlled and use a thick LL-01 just to be sure.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Like I said numerous times, LL-01 and LL-04 are still go to oils in Europe, where these engines see high speed. So B38/48/58 are built for heavier oils. BMW is just doing what Japanese and American manufacturers are doing for two decades, specifying oil based on market conditions. However, one thing is to run 0W20 in Honda Pilot, another in turbo charged BMW.

I'd stick with BMW recommendations here in the U.S. which call for 0w20 or 0w30 oils.
Sounds like you're accustomed to another country's long time marketing habits.
Trust BMW on this issue. Use their recommended oil.
If racing/tracking/autocrossing, then you can assume oil temperatures are not well controlled and use a thick LL-01 just to be sure.

I do trust BMW, and they recommend LL-01 or LL-04 for market they actually develop engines for. When BMW develop engines they have Germany first in mind, not the U.S. 0W20 is attempt to address issue that is confined to the U.S. driving habits.
Take into consideration that BMW probably is using the U.S. market as a testing ground for ACEA A5/B5 oils. While BMW is running tests on ACEA A5/B5 since 2010, tests cannot always replicate real driving conditions. Same happened with SCR system on diesels.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Seventh
Dealer will absolutely not put 5w30 in it. LL-01 is being phased out.

There is a Pennzoil 5w-30 LL-01 "on the books." The distributors cannot seem to get it. Perhaps it is a dealer only option.

 

[Seventh]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Seventh
Dealer will absolutely not put 5w30 in it. LL-01 is being phased out.

There is a Pennzoil 5w-30 LL-01 "on the books." The distributors cannot seem to get it. Perhaps it is a dealer only option.


It's even getting harder for us at the dealers to get. It's losing relevancy. It is an extended drain spec, and BMW is getting away from that in the U.S. market. There hasn't been a BMW built that calls for LL-01 in a few years, and just about everything built in the last 10+ years has been back spec'd for LL-01FE 0w30. Anything older than that they officially don't care about.

They're saving money on repairs during the vehicles warranty period by using shorter intervals and a more "modern" oil. Define "modern" how ever you like.

Go try to find an LL-98 spec oil. You can't. It isn't relevant anymore, so nobody cares about it. Mobil already doesn't care about LL-01 anymore, their time (money) is better spent focusing on newer, relevant oil specs.

 

[Garak]

It is kind of strange. Castrol brought a 5w-30 A3/B4 to Canada, and apparently now to the States. Pennzoil's A3/B4 stuff needs better packaging sizes up here, but I digress.

A 5w-30 A3/B4 isn't a bad idea, since some people not only want the spec, but whatever viscosity happens to be in their manual, no matter how irrelevant it really is. As for LL-98, doesn't LL-01 officially backspec over top of that, anyhow?

 

[Seventh]

Originally Posted By: Garak
As for LL-98, doesn't LL-01 officially backspec over top of that, anyhow?


Sort of. Back then they still had "climate based" recommendations. LL-98 came in 15w-40 and 10w-30 varieties.

 

[Garak]

Thanks. I never even realized what viscosities LL-98 might have come in. I've seen LL-01 in several different ones, of course.

 

[f355spider]

Originally Posted By: Seventh
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Seventh
Dealer will absolutely not put 5w30 in it. LL-01 is being phased out.

There is a Pennzoil 5w-30 LL-01 "on the books." The distributors cannot seem to get it. Perhaps it is a dealer only option.


It's even getting harder for us at the dealers to get. It's losing relevancy. It is an extended drain spec, and BMW is getting away from that in the U.S. market. There hasn't been a BMW built that calls for LL-01 in a few years, and just about everything built in the last 10+ years has been back spec'd for LL-01FE 0w30. Anything older than that they officially don't care about.

They're saving money on repairs during the vehicles warranty period by using shorter intervals and a more "modern" oil. Define "modern" how ever you like.

Go try to find an LL-98 spec oil. You can't. It isn't relevant anymore, so nobody cares about it. Mobil already doesn't care about LL-01 anymore, their time (money) is better spent focusing on newer, relevant oil specs.


If Mobil is focusing on new, relevant oil specs, then where is their "relevant" oil for current BMWs?

 

[pbm]

My favorite line in this whole thread comes from edyvw where he states:

"Here in the U.S. BMW is specifying 0W20 to address excessive wear due to the fact that 99% of BMW buyers are buying cars to impress neighbor and use it to drive to grocery store."

I can't tell you how many times I'm stuck behind someone driving a Beemer like it's an old Coupe De Ville (slow)....I agree that many (if not most) BMW owners are trying to impress others.

Having said that, with your usage I would go with 0w30 or 5w30 that meets BMW specs. for the reasons already mentioned (faster warm-up, better cold protection etc...). You can always use 0w40 later on if you are planning a long trip or plan to motocross it.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: f355spider
If Mobil is focusing on new, relevant oil specs, then where is their "relevant" oil for current BMWs?


Exactly. M1 doesn't carry LL-01 because the new formula couldn't pass, plain and simple; that's the only thing that can be taken from their lack of LL-01 approval. Saying that it doesn't have LL-01 because they are focusing on newer specs is just false, because they don't have an LL-01 FE, LL-12, or LL-14+ approved motor oil.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: f355spider
If Mobil is focusing on new, relevant oil specs, then where is their "relevant" oil for current BMWs?

Exactly. M1 doesn't carry LL-01 because the new formula couldn't pass, plain and simple; that's the only thing that can be taken from their lack of LL-01 approval. Saying that it doesn't have LL-01 because they are focusing on newer specs is just false, because they don't have an LL-01 FE, LL-12, or LL-14+ approved motor oil.

No one knows why the new Mobil 1 0W-40 doesn't carry Longlife-01 certification, despite what anyone here says. It's not the "only thing that can be taken", that is an unfounded assertion.

And don't think I'm some kind of M1 fanboy because for my BMW (which technically doesn't even require LL-01) I've moved three feet down the Walmart oil aisle to the Castrol product. But ExxonMobil isn't saying why their product no longer is LL-01. You nor anyone else on here knows the details of what LL-01 requires, and likewise there is no test available to Bitogers that would demonstrate non-compliance with the spec.

It could just as well be a business decision in that BMW is moving away from vehicles requiring LL-01 and it wasn't worth their time. Or it could be that it is a political decision based on some spat with BMW. Or it could be that the oil doesn't pass the testing. But you nor anyone on this board knows the reason with certainty.

If you are so sure you know it is because it wouldn't pass, then which requirements of LL-01 did the new Mobil 1 0W-40 fail?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
No one knows why the new Mobil 1 0W-40 doesn't carry Longlife-01 certification, despite what anyone here says. It's not the "only thing that can be taken", that is an unfounded assertion.

I tend to agree. Mobil still does make an LL-01 product; it's just a bulk product. In some ways, this smells very much like the business of M1 lacking the Chrysler certification, while Mobil conventional has it.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
No one knows why the new Mobil 1 0W-40 doesn't carry Longlife-01 certification, despite what anyone here says. It's not the "only thing that can be taken", that is an unfounded assertion.

And don't think I'm some kind of M1 fanboy because for my BMW (which technically doesn't even require LL-01) I've moved three feet down the Walmart oil aisle to the Castrol product. But ExxonMobil isn't saying why their product no longer is LL-01. You nor anyone else on here knows the details of what LL-01 requires, and likewise there is no test available to Bitogers that would demonstrate non-compliance with the spec.

It could just as well be a business decision in that BMW is moving away from vehicles requiring LL-01 and it wasn't worth their time. Or it could be that it is a political decision based on some spat with BMW. Or it could be that the oil doesn't pass the testing. But you nor anyone on this board knows the reason with certainty.

If you are so sure you know it is because it wouldn't pass, then which requirements of LL-01 did the new Mobil 1 0W-40 fail?


When searching for motor oil of a particular specification, it is safe to say that if it doesn't carry a particular approval, it doesn't pass. That is the the most basic/rational conclusion. That's what we tell people here on BITOG all the time "Make sure it carries the correct spec!" Speculating that "well it may pass but it just doesn't have the approval because of some reason I don't know" is just that, speculation. For example, PP Euro 0W-40 doesn't carry LL-01... the first and most basic conclusion is just that, it doesn't pass the specification sequence. You're right we don't know why it doesn't have the approval, but to say that concluding that it doesn't pass is more speculative than thinking there are other reasons is just logically flawed, in my opinion. That's all.

Basically, I'm not saying I KNOW it doesn't pass. I'm saying that the first rational conclusion for lack of approval is that it doesn't pass, and other reasons/guesses come second to that.

 

[kschachn]

I guess we just disagree when there aren't any facts. For me, if I had to speculate I'd say that since it still has all the other European specifications it had before then it isn't due to a material "defect" in the formula. But since I don't really know what those other specifications require then it is just a guess on my part.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
I guess we just disagree on speculation when there aren't any facts.


There is one fact: The characters "LL-01" are not on the bottle.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I guess we just disagree on speculation when there aren't any facts.

There is one fact: The characters "LL-01" are not on the bottle.

Completely agree on that one. Plus back in the past when we had this discussion you and I both agreed the Castrol bottle was prettier. So we agree on two things

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Completely agree on that one. Plus back in the past when we had this discussion you and I both agreed the Castrol bottle was prettier. So we agree on two things

It sure is! And they don't leak even after opening. Nice for keeping a spare quart in the trunk for top-offs.