New to Direct Injection

[Rogerb3116]

I have just purchased a 2019 Buick with the 2.0 turbo motor. This is my first D.I. engine and have been reading about the problem with carbon build up on the intake valves. It appears to me that the oil from the EGR valve is what is causing the problem. I can not see anything else that would cause this build up. I have some experience with low saps oil from my Mercedes diesel days and was wondering if a low sulfated ash oil would help this problem. I have been using Mobile 1 emission system protection 5W30 synthetic oil. This meets Mercedes 229.51 specs for a low saps oil.

The car only has 20k miles on it, so I do not think it is a problem yet. I think I will do a CRC intake vales cleaner treatment just to be sure. I am looking for some advice on the low saps oil. Do you think it would help stop the carbon build up? Thanks Roger

 

[WylieCoyote]

Don't let the low mileage give you a false sense of security. I purchased a pre-owned 2017 Focus ST with 24,000 miles on it, and my intake valves were pretty heavily caked with carbon. I removed the intake & cleaned the valves, installed a catch can, and switched to Mobil 1 EP 10W-30 for its favorable sulfated ash & NOACK numbers. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...valve-deposits-ivd.326281/page-4#post-5419283

 

[Rand]

2019 engines are far different than first gen DI or GTDI engines. (mid to late 2000's)

At worst I'd expect maybe once in its lifetime to need a walnut shell cleaning or similar.
at best.. no issues at all.

 

[daves87rs]

I think some of this will depend on how it was driven as well. For piece of mind, i would definitely take a look.

I have not really heard too much in the way of issues, but I’d still get them cleaned every 50k or so...

 

[DGXR]

First, read up on information specific to the model you bought -- if it has known DI problems or a history of issues, you will find it on the internet.
If it starts, runs and drives well, I would simply add an oil separator (catch can) and keep up with maintenance. Keeping crankcase vapors out of the intake will do more to keep the valves clean than running a certain type of oil. If and when you experience running or driveability problems, then you should do your investigation into remedies, not before. Right now it sounds like you don't have any problems to solve.

 

[Kawiguy454]

+1 find info for your specific model. If it has buildup issues you can get a "catch can" to precipitate oil vapor from the EGR before it gets into the intake->valves. For the CatchCan dont get a cheapo on ebay ...theyre not the same as good ones internally. My own experience is to also run a bottle of Gumout PEA in the fuel every oil change. This cleans the very expensive injectors that IMO also can start to get sticky. My 17 Silverado had injectors get glitchy 2 times. Has not happened since doing PEA.

 

[JTK]

It's a combination of EGR gasses and oil blowby vapor that cokes on the backs of the intake valves given no fuel washes across them with DI.

To me, a good thing to follow is not extend OCIs too far. Good clean oil will lessen the chances of nasty blowby particulate.

 

[benjy]

its getting better BUT depending on the manufacturer issues vary with turbos having the most issues, NOTHING but mechanical cleaning works but various cleaners to keep injectors clean may help, good luck!!

 

[edyvw]

It depends on manufacturer. VW had big issues with this and fuel dilution starting with first TFSI engines in 2004. Yet, Honda for example in 2020 still has issues with fuel dilution. Many manufacturers refuse to learn on problems others had.
Low-SAPS oils are generally good choice for DI engines plagued by CBU. Since the US now has ULSG, using MB229.51 (Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30 is readily available in Wal Mart) would be ok.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Welcome!

The DI problems are exacerbated with a turbo. Use a d1g2 or even a dexos2 oil will go a long way. Fill up with premium, not regular. Napa Synthetic 5w30 is d1g2 and is on sale this month. There is nothing wrong with the M1 ESP you're using now, and Valvoline MST 5w30 is another good choice.

There are probably fuel treatments available that can mitigate the carbon disaster. Liqui-Moly makes good stuff, so if they have some kind of decarbonizer, use that every oil change. Even a regular fuel injector cleaner might be worth it, but it's still better if you can find a DI-specific one

 

[edyvw]

Welcome!

The DI problems are exacerbated with a turbo. Use a d1g2 or even a dexos2 oil will go a long way. Fill up with premium, not regular. Napa Synthetic 5w30 is d1g2 and is on sale this month. There is nothing wrong with the M1 ESP you're using now, and Valvoline MST 5w30 is another good choice.

There are probably fuel treatments available that can mitigate the carbon disaster. Liqui-Moly makes good stuff, so if they have some kind of decarbonizer, use that every oil change. Even a regular fuel injector cleaner might be worth it, but it's still better if you can find a DI-specific one

M1 ESP 5W30 MB 229.51 is superior oil in EVERY aspect compared to ANY D1G2 oil.
Turbo+DI? I would always go Euro specifications.

 

[Rogerb3116]

I am reading a lot about catch cans for the PCV. Any thoughts?

 

[Rogerb3116]

Welcome!

The DI problems are exacerbated with a turbo. Use a d1g2 or even a dexos2 oil will go a long way. Fill up with premium, not regular. Napa Synthetic 5w30 is d1g2 and is on sale this month. There is nothing wrong with the M1 ESP you're using now, and Valvoline MST 5w30 is another good choice.

There are probably fuel treatments available that can mitigate the carbon disaster. Liqui-Moly makes good stuff, so if they have some kind of decarbonizer, use that every oil change. Even a regular fuel injector cleaner might be worth it, but it's still better if you can find a DI-specific one

What good is a fuel treatment when the fuel does not touch the back of the valve where the the problem is?

 

[Driz]

The fuel dilution is a good reason to stick to shorter OCIs 5+6K , hey oil is cheap right? Do that and the thin oil shouldn’t mean anything. Stick with decent synthetic oil and try To shoot for oil with a low NOAK ( burnoff rate, volatility). They’re getting pretty common lately. Youll find most oil specs listed at the Petrolium Quality Institute of America’s website. It does take a bit of digging around in there but lots of good info on all fluids vehicle.
catch cans really do cut down on the spooge ingestion. The trouble is they need cleaning out fairly regularly especially in winter months. Condensation really fills it then. So they work well but it’s another thing to maintain. Then there’s the warranty thing. If you put one on try to do it so you can remove it and plug the old pvc hose back in OEM if it has to go into the dealer. Once or 2x year of bottle of fuel treatment with Techron most seem to recommend.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

I am reading a lot about catch cans for the PCV. Any thoughts?

Install one. Your engine will thank you.

 

[circuitsmith]

This study showed that completely removing the PCV system did not reduce valve deposits.

Considerations on Carbon Deposit Formation in Gasoline Direct Injection Engine - PDF Free Download

Considerations on Carbon Deposit Formation in Gasoline Direct Injection Engine Gyu-Sob Cha GS Caltex Corporation Contents Introduction : Motivation & Objective of Research Preliminary Test

docplayer.net

It appears that valve deposits come mainly from combustion chamber gasses passing back through the intake valve at the beginning of the intake stroke.
Many engines use this effect to perform EGR without a separate valve and passage.

Yes, catch cans collect crud, but there's no proof that stuff collects on the valves.

 

[Malo83]

I have a 17 Regal GS with the 2.0T, keep away from extended oil changes and run Premium gas, I run Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 with a NAPA/Wix Platinum filter.

 

[Rogerb3116]

This study showed that completely removing the PCV system did not reduce valve deposits.

Considerations on Carbon Deposit Formation in Gasoline Direct Injection Engine - PDF Free Download

Considerations on Carbon Deposit Formation in Gasoline Direct Injection Engine Gyu-Sob Cha GS Caltex Corporation Contents Introduction : Motivation & Objective of Research Preliminary Test

docplayer.net

It appears that valve deposits come mainly from combustion chamber gasses passing back through the intake valve at the beginning of the intake stroke.
Many engines use this effect to perform EGR without a separate valve and passage.

Yes, catch cans collect crud, but there's no proof that stuff collects on the valves.

Very interesting. They think the PVC is not the problem and catch cans are not needed. I had decided before I read this to not put one on because of the problems that it might cause the turbo. This convinced me they are not needed.

 

[TiGeo]

Drive the car, use the recommended oil and fuel, and add a walnut blast intake valve cleaning to your scheduled maintenance at some point down the line. I've not seen a single thing that has proven to get rid of this issue completely from different oil, running premium in a vehicle not tuned for it, to catch cans. Unless you are having CELs/misfires etc., there shouldn't be anything to worry about. The 2.0 in my Focus is DI and 7 years old/110K and runs like a top - I'm sure there is some buildup but unless it's causing issues I'm not bothering with it. My 1.8 in my VW at some point will get cleaned up but that car is tuned/upgraded so I do care more about it I suppose...ahhahaha. The shop I use for some of the work on it does the service for about $400 I think which if you have to do it once or twice over a 10 year ownership, isn't a big deal.

 

[ka9mnx]

Here I go. I'm not a fan of catch cans. I'm sure there are a few but I don't see manufacturers installing them on TDI engines. As I have mentioned here on other occasions, There was a study on intake valve deposits (wish I could find it again) and their conclusion was it's major cause is by over extended oil change intervals. This makes sense to me.