New Tires Mounted Where?

[Nick1994]

Now I know this topic has been beaten like a dead horse

BUT upon looking through my owner's manual, it is recommended that new tires should be mounted on the front for safety reasons. Now I don't have a brand new car, but when was it started to be recommended to put new tires on the rear? Is this something new?

I personally like my best tires on the front on a vehicle that doesn't have a matching set. My reason is a couple weeks ago I got 2 new tires. They were placed on the rear. Discount tire moved my rear tires to the front and set me on my way. One of the tires was defective, and was cupped (NOT because my car) and when I got onto the freeway my car wandered left and right all over the freeway and on a turn at 70 mph my stability control light began flashing and my car was automatically braking, and was hard to control during the turn. I went back and got 2 more tires. When the cupped tire was on the rear prior to this the car was fine.

Unless you look closely, you couldn't tell the tire was cupped. Now as far as a safety standpoint, wouldn't it be wiser to make sure your steering/front tires are in the best shape? How can the big tire chains who mandate this be sure that the tires with less tread that go onto the front, which were previously on the rear, be safe on the road? They didn't know with my car.

I understand the talk with the lower tread and that it should be placed on the front, it's quite obvious in those videos. If I lived in a geographic area where it rained often and I had 2 tires at half tread that handled safely and were in good shape, and only bought 2 tires I would probably put the new ones in the rear.

When I had my Camry, I kept my best tires up front. It had 3 Brigestones and 1 Chinese tire (from previous owner). I tried with the two best tires in the rear and the other two in the front and the car did not handle well at all, it too wandered around on the freeway and pulled to one side but handled great when it was on the rear.

BUT, my questions are, how bald are the rear tires they use in those tests they show in the videos?

What would happen if they were 1/2 tread in the rear and full tread in the front? The car shouldn't oversteer in my way of thinking.

What if the car had all 4 tires that were 1/2 tread? Would it be fine throughout the turn in the rain, understeer, or oversteer?

Not looking for arguments, just looking for a good discussion. How can tire companies know the used tires will handle the best on the front?

 

[supton]

I prefer to mount the tires on my car. I've found them to be of little use elsewhere.

Interesting on the manual. Is that for your '04?

I wonder if matters all that much where you are. Doesn't traffic slow to a crawl when it rains?

 

[92saturnsl2]

I try to put my new tires on the back-- much better stability in messy weather.

If my vehicle is FWD, I put new tires on the front unless the difference in tread is enormous, in hopes that I can get the tread even and begin a normal rotation.

 

[fdcg27]

VW may not always be esteemed for the reliability of its cars, but VW isn't stupid and its cars typically have pretty good handling as FWD cars go. IOW, VW understands suspension development.
This is yet another data point in the ongoing debate as to whether the better tires belong on the front or the rear.

 

[splinter]

I've cultivated a mutually beneficial relationship with our local independent Michelin dealer.
He works with me on pricing and does a fine job. His outfit is the only one I feel comfortable telling,
"here are the keys...do what needs doing then text me when you're done."

I only go to the dealer for new vehicle purchases and warranty work in spite of the owner's manual admonitions.

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: supton
I prefer to mount the tires on my car. I've found them to be of little use elsewhere.

Interesting on the manual. Is that for your '04?

I wonder if matters all that much where you are. Doesn't traffic slow to a crawl when it rains?
Yup it's on the 04'. I'll look in the owner's manual of the 13' TDI Beetle this evening.

 

[geeman789]

What is worse ... hydro-planing off the road when your new tires are on the back...

Or spinning off the wet road when your new tires are on the front...

Of course, that is IF it rains...

Lately, tire shops seem to be reluctant to do what your manual says, that is new tires on the front. COSTCO won't do it...

Product liability has moved to this position... if you under-steer off the road, it is YOUR fault, too fast for the conditions.

If you spin out from oversteer, it is the cars fault... or the tires... etc. The average driver is not expected to be able to control over-steer. So cars are set up to understeer from the factory, and tire stores won't put new tires on the front for the same reason, because if they do, and you lose the rear end and crash, they could be held liable.

Best course of action is to rotate frequently, keeping wear fairly even... or take loose wheels to the tire shop, then put the new tires where you want them...

 

[HerrStig]

The tires which generate the lowest slip angle should generally go on the back, IMHO. Otherwise you will get the dreaded oversteer. There appears to be a conflict, now between what provides "safe" handling for Aunt Tilly and what drivers who can actually drive expect, though. Personally, understeering right off the road does not top my list of good handling traits. When looking at what to put where, the tire behaviour, based on construction and compound is as important as how much tread might be on it.
Good, but car hopeless, friend bought two new tires (cheap) for his leased Camry, and as per the usual authority, the tire buster, put them on the back. The car OVERSTEERED like a VW Bug in heat. He got a line of B* from the tire store about the condition of the car. At my suggestion he had them relocated to the front. No more fish tail. He later replaced the Camry with a Lexus IS 200 series and learned what real handling was all about.

 

[fdcg27]

The average driver of any RWD vehicle had better be able to control oversteer.
Oh, wait, could that be why so many pickups and old-school SUVs end up in the ditch on nasty winter days?
In my younger years, FWD was rare and you learned to deal with and enjoy a little tail happiness in slick conditions.
Oversteer in the dry was a much more serious matter, since it happened at much higher speeds.
Tread depth on the rears had nothing to do with this.

 

[Nate1979]

Call your local VW dealer and ask them what they would do.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The average driver of any RWD vehicle had better be able to control oversteer.
Oh, wait, could that be why so many pickups and old-school SUVs end up in the ditch on nasty winter days?
In my younger years, FWD was rare and you learned to deal with and enjoy a little tail happiness in slick conditions.
Oversteer in the dry was a much more serious matter, since it happened at much higher speeds.
Tread depth on the rears had nothing to do with this.
A brand new set can be "loose" until they wear in. Something else Aunt Tilly doesn't know.
For some REAL fun, try RWD, snow, slush, or ice, with a limited slip with grabby clutches- often from the wrong ot tired fluid. A little gas in a slippery corner and you've got a locked diff to contend with. THAT'S "oversteer". I always got the limited slip option but developed a quick back off reflex when I felt the rear begin to slide in bad weather. Traction control must be "more better".

 

[KitaCam]

Always safest to buy 4 and rotate to wear them evenly...of course, when staggered that is not possible...but if standard sizing, I'd sacrifice a bit of miles on a pair to have 4 like tires at all 4 corners.

 

[stephen9666]

I just looked in my 2010 Jetta manual and it appears they have removed that recommendation. Mine doesn't make any recommendation about where new tires should go, that I can find, and I've looked through the entire section on tires.

My guess is the info in the OP's manual is something VW had been including in manuals for years. As the conventional wisdom changed, they removed it from the manual.

 

[Nick1994]

Just looked in the owners manual of the 2013 VW Beetle TDI and it doesn't care whether new tires are in the front or rear, just as long as they're replaced in pairs

 

[CapriRacer]

I am not sure when the idea of mounting new tires on the rear became an industry standard, but it was in the vicinity of 20 years ago.

What is really interesting is how long it takes vehicle manufacturers to update their owners manuals. Just the other day, I saw a new GM owners manual that was referring to bias ply tires - which haven't been made of over 30 years!

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I don't run tires to the point where they would be bald enough to be dangerous - so I always put the new tires where they would wear the most.

If I buy 4 at once, which I try to do, they all go on at the same time

 

[mrsilv04]

I tend to put the new pair of tires where *I* want them.

Or better yet, just buy 4 tires.

 

[hpb]

New tyres (as we spell it!) always go to the front on my cars. Every shop I've ever been to does it that way too. When rotating the tyres front to rear, you end up putting the best ones on the front, so...

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: hpb
New tyres (as we spell it!) always go to the front on my cars. Every shop I've ever been to does it that way too.

Just the opposite of what most shops do here in the US.

I thought the whole push from tire manufacturers to put better tires on the rear was a worldwide effort. I guess not.

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: hpb
New tyres (as we spell it!) always go to the front on my cars. Every shop I've ever been to does it that way too.

Just the opposite of what most shops do here in the US.

I thought the whole push from tire manufacturers to put better tires on the rear was a worldwide effort. I guess not.


Michelin Australia's website says exactly what the U.S. website says, that new tires should be put on the rear.

http://www.michelin.com.au/Learn-share/Safety-tips/#
Quote:
For Complete Control, Fit Your new Tyres to the Rear Axle

Rear wheels are not connected to your steering wheel, which makes it extremely difficult to judge their grip while driving. So for your safety, always fit new, or the least worn, tyres to the rear wheel positions to ensure:

-Better control in emergency braking or tight corners
-Less risk of losing control of your vehicle, especially on wet surfaces
-Better road holding, particularly in difficult situations, whether your car is front or rear wheel drive