New start.

[BarkerMan]

A friend received a car as a gift because it smoked, would not pass smog and did not run well.

I helped with a tune up and we purchased a case of gallon jugs of Delo 15w40 from Costco and ran two back to back 2-bottle doses of AutoRx. We just finished using 4 bottles of Auto-Rx, 6 gallons of oil and 12 filters from our fleet filter sponsor. The first filters came out with just a little [censored] but later filters came out completely krapped up, filled with dark heavy sludge. The compression came up and the car after a careful tune up passed smog.

1998 Honda Accord, auto transmission

starting mileage 134,208
ending mileage 142,014
starting compression 1=125, 2=130, 3=175, 4= 100
ending compression 1=180, 2=175, 3-180, 4=170
starting mileage 19mpg
ending mileage 28mpg

You should look at the change in fuel mileage, not the actual milage because it has more to do with driving conditions and driving habits. This guy does not spare the whip and I encourged with the idea that the clean and rinse might work better if the engine had some work to do. Also you have to take into consideration that there was the tune up done but I think the results are a product of both. A tune up could not have rasised the compression.

I have come to the conclusion that the double bottle dose is good for really bad engines but the 1 bottle does will work for everything else and it's a good idea to repeat the 1 bottle dose with higher mileage. You may think you have everything but a second round is useful to get the last bits.

Rough cost figures are $100 tune up parts, $56 oil, $50 filters, $40 for Auto-Rx. The car now passes smog and runs really well and he'll make back the investment with the improved mileage. The previous owner will not believe that we didn't overhaul the engine. Behind his back his wife told us he order some Auto-Rx.

We also ran a 1-bottle dose on a vehicle with 20k miles and there was an improvement in fuel mileage from 16.5 to 17.5 on a V8 4Runner. The fuel mileage was done at the pump over 4 tanks before and 6 tanks after. This vehicle commutes on the same trip 5 days a week, a pretty constant use. It's driven by the guy's wife and she is much more mature in traffic than he or me.

The maintenance dose is important but I think the new vehicles can benefit as well. The idea that a new vehicle needs no help might need to be looked at more carefully.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
two back to back 2-bottle doses of AutoRx.


Just so I understand, was this CLEAN:CLEAN:RINSE ..or CLEAN:RINSE:CLEAN:RINSE with two bottles for each cleaning phase??

 

[Greggy_D]

My money is on CLEAN:RINSE:CLEAN:RINSE .

 

[mcrn]

Those gas mileage and compression increases are amazing! They should use this for advertisement for their product. The compression increase is factual proof that this stuff works.

 

[BearZDefect]

Nice results.

4 bottles of Auto-RX were only $40? Price has certainly improved. A couple of years ago when I splurged on 4 bottles it was close to $90.

 

[hertzer]

Originally Posted By: BearZDefect
Nice results.

4 bottles of Auto-RX were only $40? Price has certainly improved. A couple of years ago when I splurged on 4 bottles it was close to $90.


I just paid $77 for 4 bottles.

 

[ARB1977]

Wow i just started a treament in my wifes Jetta. Last time i checked the car only got 25 mpg...pretty sad for a little 4 banger. Tomorrow im starting a treatment in my Tacoma.

 

[Frank]

$40.00 is a mistake. Auto-Rx in 4 bottle incriments cost $ 77.08
including shiping.

Auto-Rx is not only a product that delivers, it is a bargain.

 

[BarkerMan]

Oops, sorry about the mistake. I was concentrating on all the compression numbers and notes and got the Auto-Rx cost wrong. I looked back through my notes and the rest is correct.

For myself, I think that Auto-Rx works well on sludged up engines. This one was really bad. But it also works well on newer engines. It appears that engines start growing deposits from brand new. There is no grace period. In the future I think I'd put Auto-Rx in a new engine right after an immediate oil change, that is start the maintenance dose from day 1.

 

[BarkerMan]

Can someone out there with a calculator figure out how soon the expenses would be recovered with the new gas mileage. He now drives the Accord 210 miles a week commuting to work and back. The price of regular is about $3.44/gal around here.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: BarkerMan
Can someone out there with a calculator figure out how soon the expenses would be recovered with the new gas mileage. He now drives the Accord 210 miles a week commuting to work and back. The price of regular is about $3.44/gal around here.


His payback on gas is a bit over $12/week

 

[saaber1]

An observation fyi for what it's worth. Did a 1250 mile 2 bottle clean phase and am now at 500 miles on rinse phase on a volvo turbo. Oil at the end of clean phase looked fine and no sludge. At 500 miles into the rinse phase the oil on the top part of the dipstick looks fine but the bottom of the dipstick has lots of brownish sludge. Stuck a wire down there and lots of sludge came back on it.

So as others have said no real noticable sludge removal during clean phase but very evident in the rinse phase. With this much goop coming out, I am only going to go 1000 miles on the rinse and I changed the filter just now at 500. Then I'll do a second rinse phase as Barkerman suggested in previous posts.

 

[Frank]

This is the heart of the Auto-Rx program and if you skip it "Sludge' will form again.

Auto-Rx® Maintenance Plan

*Why The Maintenance Program Is Important*

A clean engine is a healthy engine. The Auto-Rx Maintenance Program allows you to retain all the benefits you've received from your specific Auto-Rx Application, avoiding the need to repeat the full treatment again down the road.

Make Auto-Rx part of your regular routine maintenance. Every time you change your oil add 3 oz. of Auto-Rx as a preventative measure. Auto-Rx adds a margin of safety to your oil by slowing down the oil's oxidation rate, preventing contaminant build up on metal surfaces, and allowing rotating seals to remain pliable.

The Auto-Rx Maintenance Program allows you to maintain the many benefits that were achieved during the original application. Your engine will maintain it's peak efficiency under the program, allowing you the opportunity to enjoy increased power, smoothness, and restoring lost fuel economy. An engine that is able to maintain complete combustion is one that produces the most power and achieves it's best fuel efficiency. To help maintain a healthy engine we recommend you have your PCV system serviced on a regular basis.

 

[Frank]

What results for another great test of Auto-Rx using multiple bottles in a sludge cleaning application.

This post was equally dramatic "We also ran a 1-bottle dose on a vehicle with 20k miles and there was an improvement in fuel mileage from 16.5 to 17.5 on a V8 4Runner. The fuel mileage was done at the pump over 4 tanks before and 6 tanks after. This vehicle commutes on the same trip 5 days a week, a pretty constant use. It's driven by the guy's wife and she is much more mature in traffic than he or me"

I feel most all know the rinse mode is the key to a clean engine.
We are looking at not only what works, is it cost effective ?

Thanks to Gary & Lonnie & BarkerMan for getting these tests done.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
The maintenance dose is important but I think the new vehicles can benefit as well. The idea that a new vehicle needs no help might need to be looked at more carefully.


I think that there's an assumption that if you keep the routine maintenance up, you can't get benefit from it. In some cases, that may be correct, but we've come to learn that newer designs aren't necessarily advanced in all aspects. That is, even though they've managed to cram more hp into smaller displacements, they don't necessarily remain 100% functional beyond the projected target market first round of ownership. The decay rate is so slow most consumers can't really notice.

As I've said in other posts, a condition that's present @ 60k-100k didn't occur over night. It's the same with fuel injectors or piston rings ..or oil galleries ...lifters ..what have you.

I think that the rinse phase is the essential element here. The dose rate, imo, only shortens the time frame for a normal cleaning. I imagine if you've got heavy tar or pudding ..that there will be times when you tax the holding capacity of the filter and the oil ..so it may take several rinses or a follow up tratement to get it completely removed. Either way, you get a cleaned engine.

Your Accord experiment bore fruit in spades, but I'm trying to look at this from a non-DIY perspective. If you're paying for oil change service, you're looking at about $25 a pop. Now surely it's worth it - just by the fuel economy increase in your case, but I'm trying to figure the break even point for the slow track; taking into account the lower fuel economy over the longer span of miles to accomplish the same thing. Naturally, this is an exceptional case ..and, as always (and quite literally), YMMV.

 

[saaber1]

Quote:
If you're paying for oil change service, you're looking at about $25 a pop. Now surely it's worth it - just by the fuel economy increase in your case, but I'm trying to figure the break even point for the slow track; taking into account the lower fuel economy over the longer span of miles to accomplish the same thing. Naturally, this is an exceptional case ..and, as always (and quite literally), YMMV.


I like where you are going here but I think that the average person using an oil change service would very rarely add additional cost for an enhancement they don't know that much about. If this were my product, I would target the customer who buys it off the shelf at the local autozone, etc. and changes their oil DIY. Only after many years of widespread accceptance and knowledge by the public would people pay for it at a jiffy lube, etc. My guess is that would never happen.

The key to reaching the DIY customer base is the same as successful movies, make it accessible to the average person at the 7th grade education level (some may take that to be an indictment of american culture but I'm not trying to go there here).

Royal Purple is an example of this type of marketing IMO. It went from unknown to being pretty widely available in a relatively short time. Note that I am not saying I like Royal Purple's marketing, only that it is effective. I also think that one doesn't need any type of deceptive marketing at all, one only needs to tell the facts about the product in a way that will reach the audience.

So if the product is marketed as a simple treatment, ala "add one bottle when you change your oil" and that is all the customer has to think about, that will be the most successful in terms of marketing IMO.

 

[BarkerMan]

After talking with the owner of this project car I want to make something clear that I may have glossed over. This car was really plugged up. When I pulled the drain plug on a hot engine, 228 by the IR gun on the pan, it took 4 hours for the oil to stop draining. The steady stream lasted about a half hour and it dripped for 3.5 hours. I was able to speed up the dripping by sticking a screwdriver through the drain hole and poking at the hard deposits. We changed the oil today and it ran out normally poking through the drain hole I hit nothing. I just wanted to make this clear because there was a lot of money spent on Auto-Rx, oil and filters but I think the result was worth the investment. Now that the car has been driven a while there has been no damage that we can detect. Auto-Rx did it's work and did not harm anything in the process. Today this car runs great. The last three tanks of fuel have produced 29, 32 and 32 mpg.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
I like where you are going here but I think that the average person using an oil change service would very rarely add additional cost for an enhancement they don't know that much about. If this were my product, I would target the customer who buys it off the shelf at the local autozone, etc. and changes their oil DIY. Only after many years of widespread accceptance and knowledge by the public would people pay for it at a jiffy lube, etc. My guess is that would never happen.


I agree with much of what you say, but I think that it would take very little for someone reading here on BITOG to pour a bottle of Auto-Rx in their engine after visiting their oil change service of choice. OTOH, some may be unable to store the pan/tools or not have a place to change their oil (apartment complex or some association rules).

Quote:
The key to reaching the DIY customer base is the same as successful movies, make it accessible to the average person at the 7th grade education level (some may take that to be an indictment of american culture but I'm not trying to go there here).


I am sure that this is what (probably) frustrates Frank. I'm very sure that if he had the time and there was some "unclean" scale that you could communicate over the phone ..that he would give custom tailored mileage recommendations to get the best results. I assume that he has to configure his applications in a KISS format as much as possible.

Quote:
So if the product is marketed as a simple treatment, ala "add one bottle when you change your oil" and that is all the customer has to think about, that will be the most successful in terms of marketing IMO.


Sure ..and he's just about there with the current process. The only difference is that it may be "every other" oil change for those with dirtier engines. He could market it as "Auto-Rx every 30,000 miles" (said in a cadence like "Jiffylube complete!") in some national campaign since that type of advertising would probably yield more casual sales than the more detailed elements can yield in the niche market where he can get some to do the maintenance dose instead of periodic full cleanings. I'm sure all that he needs is a million $$ budget.

The shame of it is ..that although Auto-Rx would surely be a product that could use a Z-Max type of ad campaign ...and survive FTC scrutiny for claims and whatnot ..the ante to get into that realm would move most of the benefits to NASCAR and whatnot for the promotional endorsements. I imagine that you broker away 3-4 times the yield in such enterprises. It's a cartel that kinda extracts a toll for passage to success without really doing a whole lot.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: saaber1
An observation fyi for what it's worth. Did a 1250 mile 2 bottle clean phase and am now at 500 miles on rinse phase on a volvo turbo. Oil at the end of clean phase looked fine and no sludge. At 500 miles into the rinse phase the oil on the top part of the dipstick looks fine but the bottom of the dipstick has lots of brownish sludge. Stuck a wire down there and lots of sludge came back on it.

So as others have said no real noticable sludge removal during clean phase but very evident in the rinse phase. With this much goop coming out, I am only going to go 1000 miles on the rinse and I changed the filter just now at 500. Then I'll do a second rinse phase as Barkerman suggested in previous posts.



You experimenting too? My gosh ..what have I done

? At least this is better than my 2 quart MMO experiment ..well that was surely cheaper ..but had more potential liabilities with the fear of cat failure (the reason that Eyesgotz2nose'd it) and whatnot. The difference in that experiment was that I was attempting to prove what didn't happen ..even with massive dosage. It pretty much ended the debate on whether it would harm your sensors and cat. The stuff may be junk otherwise, but it appears to do no harm.

I think that everyone should keep in mind that I was just doing an experiment. That is, a SWAG on what might work and then seeing if it did. The sensible use of this stuff follows a long is better method of use. Frank has talked with me, many times, and is surely interested in the results of various doses and time frames ..but he's given no endorsement to any of it AFAIK.

Do not attempt this at home! Amateur risk taker on closed course.

Listen to Frank

 

[posty]

AFAIK. ???