New short block - does this oil seem strange?

[JHZR2]

dealers often round up numbers, or misquote on their invoices for stuff like this. Its definitely worth your while to figure out why all these different items were used.

What is the sump size of that engine? Cant be as many quarts as they charged you for. Maybe ough they just dumped oil through the engine first to 'clean' it or something... only they know for sure.

Why would an acura engine fail at such a young age? I dont think I read the thread that explained that part of it...

JMH

 

[Ray H]

quote:

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Originally posted by 427Z06:
Additionally, most of the other wearing surface are micro polished and cleaned of all debris.

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The only thing wrong with that notion is the inflated wear metal readings commonly seen in UOAs of new motors. This is machining debris and asperity wear-off micro-junk that survived "micro-polishing" on the shop floor and didn't get trapped by the oil filter. There is no way to clean all leftover machining debris despite the manufacturer's best efforts. Add me to the list of "ignoranuses" who believes a gentle run-in with an early oil and filter change is any new motor's best friend. Also, add me to the list of "ignoranuses" who're admittedly puzzled by the near obsession of many to pour $40.00 or more of niche motor oil into their motors but balk at the idea of one additional oil change during their engine's life.

 

[oilyriser]

I was once billed for 5L of oil, and once 6L of ATF at a Subaru dealership. You only use 4L ATF on that thing when the pan is emptied, and the crankcase only holds 4L. They also mark up the oil by a factor of 5. I phoned Subaru Canada and complaied. I got a cheque in the mail a couple weeks later for the difference.

Did they by chance replace the transmission fluid? That sometimes can use 2L of 10w30.

 

[curls]

quote:

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Originally posted by oilyriser:
I was once billed for 5L of oil, and once 6L of ATF at a Subaru dealership. You only use 4L ATF on that thing when the pan is emptied, and the crankcase only holds 4L. They also mark up the oil by a factor of 5. I phoned Subaru Canada and complaied. I got a cheque in the mail a couple weeks later for the difference.

Did they by chance replace the transmission fluid? That sometimes can use 2L of 10w30.

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Honda MTF was on there as a separate entry.

Priming the oil pump IS called for in the service manual, so maybe that's it... I'd say they might have poured some oil into the engine before starting it, as it was a fresh shortblock. I'm guessing they do something similar in the factory with fresh blocks, too, in order to have "some" oil coating the cylinder walls, etc... before cranking it. Otherwise it'd be 100% metal on metal contact.

For those interested, with the original block, it was burning 1L of oil every 1000km, consistantly, regardless of driving style (even on 100% highway crusising at 65 mph for 16 hours straight...).

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ray H:

quote:

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Originally posted by 427Z06:
Additionally, most of the other wearing surface are micro polished and cleaned of all debris.

---

The only thing wrong with that notion is the inflated wear metal readings commonly seen in UOAs of new motors. This is machining debris and asperity wear-off micro-junk that survived "micro-polishing" on the shop floor and didn't get trapped by the oil filter. There is no way to clean all leftover machining debris despite the manufacturer's best efforts.

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A lot more asperity wear-off than machining debris. There's no evidence that the engines of those who follow the manufacturers recommendations are wearing out any sooner than those attached to 1950's practices. There's even UOA evidence here that dispels such archane beliefs.

 

[JohnBrowning]

427Z06, Just so you know my point was not that Motuneusa's method is any better then old school easy break-in or new school leave the oil in for the duration of the normal recomended oil change interval. My point was that even when you do everything opposite of the OEM recomendation in terms of oil viscosity and break-in procedure you are normaly fine! It really does not seem to matter what is done with Modern engine designs especialy with OEM built import engines!!!

If we are talking about after market rebuilds short or long block things change drasticly!

 

[curls]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
If we are talking about after market rebuilds short or long block things change drasticly!

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How does a break-in procedure drastically change between a brand new, 0km engine, and an engine where the head is rebuilt completely, and the bottom end is 100% new? (we're talking new block, crank, bearings, pistons, piston rings, connecting rods, etc... the whole entire short block)

Just curious...

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
427Z06, Just so you know my point was not that Motuneusa's method is any better then old school easy break-in or new school leave the oil in for the duration of the normal recomended oil change interval. My point was that even when you do everything opposite of the OEM recomendation in terms of oil viscosity and break-in procedure you are normaly fine! It really does not seem to matter what is done with Modern engine designs especialy with OEM built import engines!!!

If we are talking about after market rebuilds short or long block things change drasticly!

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I agree 100%, JB....and we agree aftermarket rebuilds are a different story altogether.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Yes, I have tried break-in both ways (on new oem engines)and I really can not see any difference. I will say that I was intrigued by motuneusa's explanation of his madness! I think he sell's his methodology fairly well. I have no idea if he is right on or in left field! I am just glad I tried it on a Toyota!!!

I have seen how hard it is to kill one!!

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
I am just glad I tried it on a Toyota!!!

I have seen how hard it is to kill one!!

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Yes...most Toyota engines live up to the lore of Timex watches..."takes a licking, and keeps on ticking."