New refrigerant that replaces both R12 and R134A?

[GT Mike]

quote:

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Originally posted by BigAl:
Mike: Have you ever noticed that the Illinois stores near the Wisconsin border are almost always sold out of R134a?

Don't ask me how I know . . .

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Gotta love us bootleggers!

I get mine from either Wal-Mart or Advance Auto Parts in Rockford. Every time I go to either place, they always have plenty in stock.

They do look at me kinda funny when I buy 3 or 4 cases of the stuff at one time though! Once, I was asked why I'm buying it in such quantity, and I told them the honest truth how it was illegal to purchase over-the-counter in small cans in WI. What can anyone do really?

 

[BigAl]

quote:

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Originally posted by castor:

d.i.y. has no place in responsible a/c servicing. but hey, what do i know

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Castor: Some of us DIY types do our work very responsibly, get the old refrigerant recovered at a shop, check carefully for leaks before refilling, draw a long, deep vacuum, etc. We research and read before doing the work and check things crefully along the way. We might even do a better job than some professional techs that have to work under time pressure.

I installed my first aftermarket auto A/C system from scratch five years ago, The installation was very neatly done, and it still works like day one, no leaks, no problems. The repairs and R134a retrofit that I have done have worked well. Please don't lump us all together.

 

[rshaw125]

All refrigerants used to be hydrocarbons.I put Enviro-safe in my old van 4 years ago. 95 Voyager. I have had to top it up once. Works great. If you google 134-A you'lll find its toxic.
I think the hydrocarbons are cheaper and safer.Plus it takes a very small volume to fill the system. I would not put it in a newish car.

 

[castor]

quote:

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Originally posted by BigAl:

quote:

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Originally posted by castor:

d.i.y. has no place in responsible a/c servicing. but hey, what do i know

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Castor: Some of us DIY types do our work very responsibly, get the old refrigerant recovered at a shop, check carefully for leaks before refilling, draw a long, deep vacuum, etc. We research and read before doing the work and check things crefully along the way. We might even do a better job than some professional techs that have to work under time pressure.

I installed my first aftermarket auto A/C system from scratch five years ago, The installation was very neatly done, and it still works like day one, no leaks, no problems. The repairs and R134a retrofit that I have done have worked well. Please don't lump us all together.

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you i congratulate big al.
i have seen some of the most HORRENDOUS BODGES on commercial, domestic and automotive ref/ac. and yes, some of this has been done by "professionals"
i think most of the consistantly unreliable work i have seen done has been by "allied trades" ie electricians, mechanics etc. remember, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. and the poor customer pays for this knowledge
so i stand by my statement that DIY has no place in responsible servicing, but congrats on your approach to auto air repair

 

[K-Man]

When R-134 first became widely available, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) evidently proposed licensing and handling requirements on a federal level to match those on R-12. Advance Auto and some other auto parts stores circulated petitions to stop this, and succeeded.

The word then was that had the R-134 rules stuck, the EPA was going to look at antifreeze and motor oil next, that is, requiring a license to buy and install coolant and oil, killing the DIY market. Legally you would have had no choice but to go to a mechanic for fluid changes, and this would have applied nationwide.

Be careful what you wish for, Castor.

 

[i]

I'd leave the country rather than have the EPA dictate that I have to let some high school drop out monkey work on my 40 year old classic convertible and I can't touch it myself.

 

[castor]

quote:

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Originally posted by ekrampitzjr:

When R-134 first became widely available, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) evidently proposed licensing and handling requirements on a federal level to match those on R-12. Advance Auto and some other auto parts stores circulated petitions to stop this, and succeeded.

The word then was that had the R-134 rules stuck, the EPA was going to look at antifreeze and motor oil next, that is, requiring a license to buy and install coolant and oil, killing the DIY market. Legally you would have had no choice but to go to a mechanic for fluid changes, and this would have applied nationwide.

Be careful what you wish for, Castor.

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i'm all for the proper and safe handling of chemicals, be they arsenic, flurocarbons or used oil.
and refrigerant can be a dangerous chemical. have you ever seen a burn caused by liquid refrigerant, i.e a burn from COLD refrigerant? these can occur with the opening up of a charged system with painful results.
are you allowed to do your own propane/dual fuel installations or repairs?

 

[i]

Yea and fingers get chopped off by fan blades. I am so sick of mommy society -- we are by far the wussiest culture on earth now. Sad.

 

[Crashbox]

I apologize if I'm threadjacking, but I sometimes wonder if this CFC scare was merely created to "obsolesce" otherwise sound refrigeration equipment... I recall someone, somewhere mentioning that the "ozone hole" was proven to be cyclic in nature...

Nonetheless, it looks like I'll have to replace the A/C in my '77 Chev 454 pickup. What to use? R-717? R-764? I sure don't need any license to use R-718, that's for sure...

Yessir, I would definitely avoid ANY flammable refrigerant for autos.

 

[castor]

quote:

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Originally posted by i:
Yea and fingers get chopped off by fan blades. I am so sick of mommy society -- we are by far the wussiest culture on earth now. Sad.

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what sort of car do you have i?
i had a 68 rs ss camaro about 20 years ago. i'm still in love with it. 350, 4.11's, 2 doors, 4 gears and tic-toc-tac, what more could a guy ask for?

 

[hatcoleman]

I own several HVAC supply houses. And sell manydifferent R12 replacements. My personal preference for a R12 replacement for automotive use
would be a product called HOTSHOT. It replaces R12 & R134. I would not use any product containing propane. Too dangerous. You could charge a system with pure propane and it would cool great. But would you want to be in a car with 2 - 3 lbs of propane.
If you have a leak in the evap. and someone smokes in your car, it could explode. Or in a crash it could leak out and explode too.

 

[VaderSS]

Well, licensing is not that hard to get for R12.

Go here and get it online;
www.epatest.com

You can then go to any parts store and get it for about $30 a pound or ebay for about $20.