New Mobil-1 "Multi-Vehicle" ATF formula

[AMG Dave]

D'OH! I quoted the wrong post... and the forum apparently won't let me edit posts, either. (??) I meant to write:

Quote:

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The pic says fully syn though.

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Mobil-1 MVF ATF is fully synthetic. Mobil Dexron VI ATF is not. That'll teach me to preview before posting... **sigh**

 

[unDummy]

Quote:

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Tests have shown that anything less than 70% synthetic oil can't pass the Dexron VI shear requirements.

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That above hasn't been proven, has it? Where? Noone really defines synth anyway. And, percentages and ratios have not been defined for full synth or blended synth either. Valvoline is 'marketed' as a full synthetic which really doesn't mean much. Mobil-1 ATF is an excellent dex/merc/V fluid. Use it anywhere that requires the dex/merc/V spec. Dexron-VI is a thinner ATF. That is the only reason why M1 ATF is not Dexron-VI. Enough of the worthless fear spreading and viscosity shearing debate. We still haven't seen too many DexronVI UOAs with mileage on them, have we? I can't wait to see how it holds up in the real world with some mileage on it.

 

[benjamming]

Quote:

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D'OH! I quoted the wrong post... and the forum apparently won't let me edit posts, either. (??) I meant to write:

Quote:

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The pic says fully syn though.

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Mobil-1 MVF ATF is fully synthetic. Mobil Dexron VI ATF is not. That'll teach me to preview before posting... **sigh**

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Yep, I stand corrected. I simply looked at the back of the Mercon V bottle & saw Dexron VI. BTW, Edit function work-around

 

[AMG Dave]

I finally called Mobil - sorry it took so long, but I've been way too busy lately. Anyway, the tech guy said that it is not possible to certify a fluid Dexron-III any longer, because it's an obsolete specification. It has been superceded by Dexron-VI. That's all old news, we knew that. So, then I asked why the new M-1 MVF ATF is not certified Dexron-VI, and the basic answer is that Mobil-1 MVF ATF does not meet the requirements for Dexron-VI. Period. That's why it doesn't say "Dexron" anywhere on the label. They still want you to buy their non-synthetic Dexron-VI fluid for Dexron-VI applications, but make the nebulous claim that the M1 MVF should work in pre-2005 vehicles, they just can't formally put the Dexron-III approval on there. And, he didn't state if it did actually meet Dexron-III specs or not - I didn't specifically ask, but I bet he couldn't say, even if he did know the answer. Bottom line - Amsoil ATF still has "Dexron III" right on the front of the label. I'd much rather use a fluid that clearly says "Dexron III", instead of a fluid that recommends a different product! What's unclear at the moment is if Amsoil actually had their ATF approved & certified Dexron or not, whether it's II, III, or VI. Here's a link: http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/atf.aspx You can get a case of 4 gallon jugs for $144 (!) list price direct from Amsoil (that's enough for 2 Mercedes trans fluid changes). Yeah, that price is crazy. However, if you add the "preferred customer" option for $10, you get 'dealer' pricing, which drops the cost to $104, plus the aforementioned $10, plus shipping & tax. For me, it was $14 shipping, $6 tax, for a grand total of $134.27 shipped to my door. That's $8.39 per quart. I'm officially switched to Amsoil for my ATF now. I sure miss the old Mobil... first they mess up their M-1 oil formulas, now they hosed up the ATF as well. If they ever screw up the Delvac-1 formula, I'll be switching to Amsoil engine oil too...! :-)

 

[Blake Sobiloff]

Interesting. My truck is almost ready for its 60K mile service, so I'm reading and trying to figure out what brand of fluids to put in the trans and transfer case. (My truck requires NissanMatic D/DEXRON III/MERCON.) At 30K it was Mobil 1, but it looks like Amsoil or Red Line might be the better choice this time. Thanks, AMG Dave, for research and post!

 

[unDummy]

I don't see the M1 ATF as messed up. It is an excellent Dexron/Mercon fluid. Since there are no 'licensing' of the older specs, why must they mention each and every possible spec? Use it anywhere DexronII,III, Mercon, MerconV.... are needed. It is not and was not meant to be a dexronVI which is the new thinner ATF, which is also being recommended as an upgrade, for the older dexron specs. I really don't see why you made a phone call. All the info is on Mobil1's website, which is where they mention a bunch of specs.

 

[mikeg5]

i was gonna say, they havent gotten rid of the M1 ATF (dex/merc)... if you guys had to chose between a synthetic DEXIII like M1 ATF or a DEXVI which would you chose and why?? this is for a tranny that calls for DEXIII

 

[DoubleAces]

I'm not sure where the data came from that says that you need at least 70% synthetic to pass DEXRON-VI, but it is not true. There are, at this point, no synthetic DEXRON-VI formulations approved, as I understand it. Most are mixes of Group II and Group III.

 

[Whitewolf]

First of all, it will come as no surprise to anyone on this thread that I'm going to say that you should use DEXRON-VI! You asked for an explanation, well the DEXRON-VI additive package is designed to give improved friction characteristics and improved friction durability beyond DEXRON-III performance. As to the debate about 'synthetic' vs 'mineral', this has been discussed at length on other threads but basically you firstly have to define exactly what is meant by 'synthetic'. The reason for this is that group III formulations can legally be described as synthetic in the USA ... and that's where the confusion arises because some companies describe their DEXRON-VI products as synthetic and some elect not to follow that route. However, there is also a myth that 'synthetic' (ie. PAO/Ester) products are somehow superior and about 15-20 years ago that would have been true when the majority of companies were primarily blending ATFs using Group I stocks. That is no longer true. Since it is routinely possible to formulate ATFs based on Group III base stocks that actually out-perform 'synthetic' (PAO/Ester) blends. This is not secret information, it has been published in SAE papers and is fully provable. It is, of course, still equally possible to create formulations that are grossly inferior to 'synthetics' but then again, I've seen companies who have the 'skill' to produce full synthetics which are inferior to mineral formulations, believe it or not! So, to recap, not all synthetics are equal ~ some are great, some are not and you shouldn't condemn a mineral formulation based on Group III stocks because they can actually out-perform certain synthetics sometimes by several orders of magnitude (depending on the type of oxidation test that it is subjected to). In addition, the DEXRON-VI type additive system is massively superior to the type of additive systems used and approved under the DEXRON-IIIH license (for instance, in the area of friction durability). Of course, some people are going to say that their fluid exceeds the DEXRON-IIIH approval anyway, and therefore is equal to DEXRON-VI, but this is just 'smoke and mirrors' because there's no proof.

 

[unDummy]

Coin toss. It depends on what you want to spend, what is available in your area, and what vehicle this is for. I have full confidence in the full synthetic Dex/Mercs. M1, RP, RL, and Ams.... have never failed me. Also, noone has approved DexronVI for non-GM applications.

 

[Whitewolf]

"Also noone has approved DEXRON-VI for non GM applications" I'm sorry but that is not correct.

 

[benjamming]

So, who else has approved DexVI?

 

[unDummy]

Then, post the automakers that have TSB's showing Dexon-VI as a substitute for Dexron-III, Mercon, matic-d, or other equivalent dex/merc OE fill. And, since you're a GM insider, why no Dexron-VI in 1991-2002 Saturn s-series automatics? weren't some of those filled with DexronIII? or was it just late for validation?

 

[wgtoys]

The forcible eliminate of Dexron-III fluid labeling from the shelves is causing a lot of confusion. I guess GM is trying to switch all users of new and old vehicles over to Dexron-VI. For example, Chevron's standard D-III/Mercon lube is now called "MD-3".

 

[Whitewolf]

Sorry, I only just saw your question. I can only quote one example that I know is public domain at the moment and that is Voith (a major European commercial vehicle transmission manufacturer for those that don't know) who have at least one DEXRON-VI fluid on their approved fluids list up to now. As for the Saturn I don't know the answer right now but there are a couple of possibilities. It could be that that transmission was 'bought in' in which case it would use whatever fluid was recommended by the manufacturer. It also could be that it used a transmission that was due to be replaced in which case it wouldn't be worth validating a new fluid for it. I'll have to investigate further to find out exactly the reason.

 

[nascarnation]

The Saturn S Series used the TAAT auto trans which was designed by Saturn back in the late 80s and built at the plant in Tennessee. It went out of production in 2003 along with the S Series platform. Not sure why they didn't back specify Dex VI but I have one and it has run well on Mobil 1 Dex 3.

 

[XS650]

 Originally Posted By: unDummy

Then, post the automakers that have TSB's showing Dexon-VI as a substitute for Dexron-III, Mercon, matic-d, or other equivalent dex/merc OE fill. And, since you're a GM insider, why no Dexron-VI in 1991-2002 Saturn s-series automatics? weren't some of those filled with DexronIII? or was it just late for validation?

Also no Dex VI in Corvette Manuel transmissions. They use the earlier Dex but VI is verboten.

 

[Whitewolf]

It was never validated in the Corvette manual transmissions that's why. As you know that is not a GM transmission so since Tremec didn't want to go thruogh the testing of another fluid it was never done.

 

[Blue T]

Allison prohibits the use of DEX VI in some of its commercial vehicle transmissions although DEX III is acceptable. Other models of their CV transmissions have been modified to use DEX VI but it still cannot be used in the older unmodified builds and the drain interval is the same as DEX III. To get an extended drain interval in an Allison transmission you have to use TranSynd, the Allison/Castrol PAO based fluid, which is a DEX III type fluid. See Allison Service Tip #1099F. DEX VI appears on the Voith lube list for non-extended use. No DEX VI on ZF's lube lists for commercial vehicles or passenger cars.

 

[Whitewolf]

You have a PM.