New Guy Oil Filter Questions

[Artjr]

1. I see people talking about over sized filters what do they mean? I am guessing another filter that will fit vehicle that is bigger?? If so why? does it give more filtering? How do you know which other filters will fit?

2. Were can I learn about how to read or understand filters abilities to filter? LOL In other words how do I know one is better than another?

3. I see people wanting to run oil and filters for 15,000 miles or what ever why? Oil is a cheap product compared to what it cost to replace if it screws up by running it too long? Why risk a 3,000 dollar motor for a 30.00 oil change? Just a question?

4. Does synthetic oils give a greater protection than Dino oil??

5. Right now I am running Napa gold on my wife's Jeep Patriot 2.0 with Valvoline Dino and regular 3-4K oil changes. Are the Gold Filters a good filter? Would they be OK for Synthetic oil?
6. Just bought an 05 Dodge Ram 4x4 with a 4.7 liter and 60,000 miles. I am looking at running Valvoline Max life or Synpower with Max life what filter should I use. I bought some WIX 51085 XPs will these do the job?

Thank You I am sure I will have a ton of questions

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: Artjr
1. I see people talking about over sized filters what do they mean? I am guessing another filter that will fit vehicle that is bigger?? If so why? does it give more filtering? How do you know which other filters will fit?


1. In some cases, an indisputable increase in filtering efficiency can be obtained by running an oversized filter.
2. An oversized filter can make installation and removal of the filter easier if in a shrouded area.

There are websites that will show you the oversize equivalent of an oil filter, or you can check specs on different filters and figure it out for yourself.

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2. Were can I learn about how to read or understand filters abilities to filter? LOL In other words how do I know one is better than another?


Some manufacturers release the information on the filtering abilities of their filters, and some are not quite as open about it. If you dig deep enough, or call the manufacturer they will tell you, more often than not.

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3. I see people wanting to run oil and filters for 15,000 miles or what ever why? Oil is a cheap product compared to what it cost to replace if it screws up by running it too long? Why risk a 3,000 dollar motor for a 30.00 oil change? Just a question?


People who run their oil for 15,000 miles do so with the assistance of a Used Oil Analysis (UOA). Periodic testing will let you know when an engine's oil should be tested. Some people do not wish to waste their oil by changing it too soon. If you are doing UOA's, it's next to impossible to trash an engine by running an extended Oil Change Interval (OCI). Engine oil does not suddenly go to pieces in a moment. If it is going to lose its ability to protect an engine, it is going to get there slowly and be detected.

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4. Does synthetic oils give a greater protection than Dino oil??


Not simply by being synthetic does an oil give better protection than another oil, simply because it is conventional. There are a LOT of factors that go into that situation.

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5. Right now I am running Napa gold on my wife's Jeep Patriot 2.0 with Valvoline Dino and regular 3-4K oil changes. Are the Gold Filters a good filter? Would they be OK for Synthetic oil?


Nothing wrong with NAPA Gold at all. If you are going to keep doing 3-4k OCI's, do not waste your money on synthetic. But yes, the NAPA Gold is fine for synthetic oil.


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6. Just bought an 05 Dodge Ram 4x4 with a 4.7 liter and 60,000 miles. I am looking at running Valvoline Max life or Synpower with Max life what filter should I use. I bought some WIX 51085 XPs will these do the job?

Thank You I am sure I will have a ton of questions


Nothing wrong with the Wix XP and MaxLife. If you are going to run 3-4k OCI's like your Liberty, do not bother with the Synpower.

I will say that a Fram Ultra filter has better filtering efficiency than the Wix XP, but if you already have the Wix XP filters, then use them. Not life or death there.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Stay with Valvoline dino for 4K OCIs. Only need to change NAPA Golds every-other oil change 8K. 90% of oil filters in landfills are no more than 20-25% used-up. Everyone should get a minimum of 6-8K use out of a typical, basic oil filter.

Yes synthetics are better than dinos. They keep an engine cleaner - last longer and provide better extreme cold and heat protection.

 

[Donald]

I would not bother with an oversize filter. Percentage wise for the sump capacity it only gets you a percent or two more capacity.

As for the actual filter, a NAPA Gold is a fine filter. Up to you if you use filter for two oil changes. Some do, some do not.

I like synthetic oil, but thats me, dino oil is fine if you keep the OCI reasonable.

 

[Driz]

The thing is these days if you buy your oil at Walmart or someplace like that on sale you can honestly get a name brand synthetic for just a tad more then you pay for a Dino oil so why not use it. The same goes with oil filters if you can get it one that's a longer go ahead and get it as long as it'll fit. It won't cost anymore anyways so why not but I sure wouldn't sweat it if I couldn't find one nor would I spend a lot of time looking for one it's just an option.

 

[CT8]

Two things about oil filters
1} The most important filter is a quality well sealed air filter.
2) The most important thing about an oil filter is that it doesn't fail.

At best syn oil s benefits are potentially at the extremes. cold heat and extended oil changes . Today's conventional oils aren't like the oils of the 50s and 60s like the syn oil marketers compare their syn oils to.

 

[Artjr]

Guys and Gals,
Thank you so very much I really like this site as the members are so very helpful. All your answers were very good and helpful. Double Wasp yours was very helpful. Thank you all for taking your time and teaching me.

 

[GenaFishbeck]

Hi Artjr – In regards to your question about synthetic oil giving greater protection, it’s true that the chemically engineered molecules in synthetic base oil have more uniform properties, while the molecules found in conventional base oil differ in shape and levels of impurity. Thus, synthetic oil provides complete engine protection including cleaner pistons, better fuel economy, horsepower protection, unsurpassed wear protection, and extreme temperature performance.

 

[ToadU]

I am of the opinion oversized filters decrease filtering efficiency and are theoretically harmful to the engine. A filter...any filter...becomes more efficient as it collects debris and dirt. Simply dirt attracts dirt. An oversized filter will have a greater area of media thus reducing efficiency.

In the real world there isn't really a way to prove this. Engines last so long any benefit or negative would be hundreds of thousands of miles (pardon the pun) "down the road". I believe any benefit or negative would be so small as not to even be statically relevant. Maybe an increase or decrease of a few hundred miles at best. Maybe no net change either way.

The above is guesswork, opinion and hypothesis and no one can say if I'm right or wrong.

I personally believe engineers and OEM manufacturers choose a specific filter spec for a reason and then throughly test their product using said spec. I don't for a minute believe engineers just sit around throwing a dart at a stack of filters and say ok that one. With this belief I trust in their choices and testing over my guessing.

 

[DoubleWasp]

It is no secret that a lot of parts are designed, chosen, and even compromised based on the assembly line.

Filter size may have nothing to do with the engineers who designed the engine.

 

[dwendt44]

Quote:
Filter size may have nothing to do with the engineers who designed the engine.


True enough. Most companies use the same filter for all their vehicles. A certain filter could be way bigger than need be for their smallest engine and just right for the biggest engine.
Economy of scale means that the more of one filter they buy, the cheaper they can get them.
All other parameters being equal.

My 2¢

 

[ToadU]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
It is no secret that a lot of parts are designed, chosen, and even compromised based on the assembly line.

Filter size may have nothing to do with the engineers who designed the engine.


I own a full service shop and while engine families tend to use the same filter different engine families produced by the same company use different filters. Hence the reason there are dozens and dozens of different oil filters made.

Oil filters are engine specific for a family of engines based on performance needs. Engines are rigourisly tested by the OEM under all types of extreme conditions to verify the engineering decisions were proper.

Has there ever been mass engine failures because an OEM spec'd an improper oil filter in say the last 40 years?

Nope. None I know of.

What you are boasting is you are somehow smarter than the engineers and know more than many thousands of hours and miles of testing conducted in real world extremes.

Good luck with that.

 

[Artjr]

Toad you are 100% right. I told son same thing when he wanted to do all kinds of [censored] to a truck. Your not smarter than person who designed the truck, your not changing it.

Also I worked a short time for NAPA. There are thousands of oil filters. We stocked like 300 different ones based on what was registered in county. That's how parts stores determine stock.

Also I see people saying why don't companies say to run filters longer than manufactures reccomeded oc. I say those that due are possibly headed to court when some one ruins care and blames them for saying 15000 miles or what ever. Just need one filter to file at 14999 miles. Bingo!! In this country you are going to court!!

 

[Artjr]

Dwindit44 it would be great if they did use just one or two filters. In fact there are so many it's unreal. To me no reason they could not get by with just three or so. But hey what would the filter companies do with only a few types to make. Lol

 

[bbhero]

How does an oversized filter decrease efficiency?? It's the filter media that dictates effiency. Not size of the oil filter. I could well be wrong. Just seems a bit of a different take on filter effiency.

 

[ABursell]

Here's an example of an oversized filter working for me, and possibly the OP, that I think would be hard to argue. I have an 02 Dodge Dakota with a 4.7. It calls for a Wix 1085 filter. I know that the Wix 1515 filter carries the exact same specs and was used on Mopar until at some point in the 70's there was a space issue on some vehicles that resulted in the smaller 1085 sized filters being used across the board. The 1515 filter is very popular as it was used on Fords for many years, which means it also costs less. It fits the space on my truck with no problems and maybe the OP's Jeep too.

Two filters, same specs, the larger one costs less. And, the engineers used to spec it.

How can you argue with that?

 

[Artjr]

Abursell. thanks as I have a 2005 Ram 1500 4x4 with a 4.7!!! No the jeep takes a different filter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
How does an oversized filter decrease efficiency?? It's the filter media that dictates effiency. Not size of the oil filter. I could well be wrong. Just seems a bit of a different take on filter effiency.


Think it's the other way around, that larger filters tend to have better efficiency. That's why filter companies will reference their largest filter when stating efficiency numbers. Also, the 4 smallest PureOne filters had the worst efficiency in the Purolator spin-ons.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: ToadU


I own a full service shop and while engine families tend to use the same filter different engine families produced by the same company use different filters. Hence the reason there are dozens and dozens of different oil filters made.


I only suggested that there was a possibility that there influences outside of engine needs behind filter sizing. Why exactly are you flipping out about something that I never even claimed to be certain?

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Oil filters are engine specific for a family of engines based on performance needs. Engines are rigourisly tested by the OEM under all types of extreme conditions to verify the engineering decisions were proper.


You do realize that you're talking about engineers that routinely screw up a great many things. Aren't you the one who has listed brand after brand of truck that you feel is a complete piece of trash? Seems you don't have the confidence in engineering that you now claim.

Do you also realize that these are the same folks that have spec'd 4 different filter sizes for the same engine?

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Has there ever been mass engine failures because an OEM spec'd an improper oil filter in say the last 40 years?

Nope. None I know of.


Who said there was? Are you attacking the windmill or the scarecrow right now?

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What you are boasting is you are somehow smarter than the engineers and know more than many thousands of hours and miles of testing conducted in real world extremes.

Good luck with that.



What thread are you reading? I boasted of absolutely nothing. I merely suggested that there was a possibility of something.

 

[bbhero]

Ohh yeah that's true about the old Purolators. The efficiency of their 4 smallest ones was @ 40 microns. And not @ 20 microns like all their other larger filters. True indeed.