New culture at GM

JohnBrowning · May 4, 2004

Last year GM hired a retired Toyota Executive to consult with them as a contract employee( Tatsuhiko Yoshimura). He has been prodding GM to change it's validation process. To date GM's validation process has only required testing to the warranty millage! Thanks GM nothing like makeing sure it will last 36,000 miles!!!

Tatsuhiko is trying to convince them that the vechiles needs to be durable and reliable through out their entire life.

GM is also finally looking at 33 key items that accounts for 75% of it's warranty costs.

The above has been pharaphrased from an article in Automotive News. The GM source is Kevin Williams, GM NAO VP Quality. The origanal article was written by Dave Guilford.

Tatsuhiko, Basicly designed/refined Toyota's validation process as we know it today.

TooManyWheels · May 4, 2004

A few years back a friend's consulting group was hired to design a culture and motivation change program for GM's Saturn division. They got buy-in from the Saturn brass, and got the program implemented, to great success.

The centerpiece of the program was a Deming (known for rebuilding Japanese industry)approach, eliminating the rating and ranking process which forces employees to do things which reflect favorably on themselves rather than helping the company as a whole. Although by all accounts the change was a smashing success, when that Saturn management was replaced by traditional GM managers they junked the whole thing and went back to business as usual.

After seeing the American car makers hire one consultant after another to give them good advice, which they proceed to first treat as a fad, and then ignore, I have absolutely no sympathy for their quality problems.

[ May 04, 2004, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: TooManyWheels ]

kansaisubaru · May 4, 2004

I think GM is listening to the Japanese for their Road to Redemption campaign (this is GM's approach on building better, higher quality/reliability cars to make up for their faulty cars of the past) One approach of this is the name changing we are seeing of unpopular, low quality cars produced by GM. For example, the Cavalier is now going to be called the Cobalt, to reflect a new image, one without the stigma of the Cavalier (supposedly). I read this in an auto magazine. Toyota's influence on GM is undeniable in my opinion (look at the joint, rebadged cars).

eljefino · May 4, 2004

A car company is not doing well if they need to keep renaming their junk. Look at the Ford Aerostar/ Windstar/ Freestar regenerations.

Al · May 4, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by TooManyWheels:
Although by all accounts the change was a smashing success, when that Saturn management was replaced by traditional GM managers they junked the whole thing and went back to business as usual.

After seeing the American car makers hire one consultant after another to give them good advice, which they proceed to first treat as a fad, and then ignore, I have absolutely no sympathy for their quality problems.

One of those few times that I completely agree with you.

You are 1000% correct. And its epidemic in American Industry.

427Z06 · May 4, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Al:

quote:

Originally posted by TooManyWheels:
Although by all accounts the change was a smashing success, when that Saturn management was replaced by traditional GM managers they junked the whole thing and went back to business as usual.

After seeing the American car makers hire one consultant after another to give them good advice, which they proceed to first treat as a fad, and then ignore, I have absolutely no sympathy for their quality problems.

Click to expand...

One of those few times that I completely agree with you.

You are 1000% correct. And its epidemic in American Industry.

I have to second the motion. Quality Circles, TQM, Six-Sigma, one fad after another. Then after management threatens everyone who doesn't believe in their new found wisdom, you'll find they're the first ones to abandon it...especially when it's time to make their production numbers. And when they can't do that, it's time to reorganize, and move all the managers around, lay-off 10% of the people that do the real work. Dilbert lives!!!

White Fang · May 5, 2004

Has anyone else noticed that about every 5 years GM admits they made junk, asks everyone to forgive them, and then promises to do better in the future?

Pablo · May 5, 2004

5 years...I thought it was 2.5 years...

I teach SPC, TQM and some other REQUIREMENTS for doing business, to the Chinese, IN China....I have no doubts as to why they are, and will continue, kicking our collective a$$es. They listen. $2-4 per hour, sure it's AN advantage....and yes most Chinese sheet is still, well,er....sheet....but anyone wonder why it's getting better????

You can thank us Americans. God, I love Chinese food. In China.

Schmoe · May 5, 2004

Military have tried all that too...TQM and then Malcolm Baldridge, Consideration to Others,ever heard of that one??? Well, after about a year, it was back to the traditional methodology.

ALS · May 5, 2004

Remington Arms is doing the same thing at the moment. They have sent out so much garbage over the last few years it is finally catching up. 3 weeks ago the top Custom Remington Rifle builder in the country and his top people were asked to come up and fix the quality problems in the factory.
If you think the American Automobile Makers are having quality problems spend some time on the gun boards and hear the complaining about the quality of Remington's new guns.
Several years ago I heard the MBA's thought that what they were paying the old timer gunsmiths was
outragious. So they got rid of them and hired all these new guys right out of gunsmithing school. It's now going to cost a lot more to fix something THEY broke instead of improving on something that worked well.

JohnnyO · May 5, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by ALS:
Several years ago I heard the MBA's thought that what they were paying the old timer gunsmiths was outragious. So they got rid of them and hired all these new guys right out of gunsmithing school. It's now going to cost a lot more to fix something THEY broke instead of improving on something that worked well.

Hey! I have an MBA! Also way too much common sense and business sense, probably that's why I own my own crummy little business instead of knocking down the big money ruining some big NYSE-traded company.

427Z06 · May 5, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by ALS:

Several years ago I heard the MBA's thought that what they were paying the old timer gunsmiths was
outragious. So they got rid of them and hired all these new guys right out of gunsmithing school. It's now going to cost a lot more to fix something THEY broke instead of improving on something that worked well.

Replace "old timer gunsmiths" with "experienced engineer, technician, mechanic, specialist, craftmen, etc, etc" and you pretty much described what I have seen happen all across corporate America the last 5-10 years.

Maybe Shakespeare forgot to add to "The first thing we do is, kill all the lawyers." is "next thing we do is kill all the MBAs". (Yes, I know Shakespeare's reference was more compliment to lawyers) What are we teaching MBAs in schools these days? "How to get your share of the pie before it's all gone?"

TooManyWheels · May 5, 2004

When I got my MBA almost twenty years ago they were teaching that accounting, marketing and strategy were the most important part of business.
The operations end was considered to be pretty much irrelevant, something anyone could do.

As you can tell from the recent scandals (or just failures) of businesses that tried to pencil-whip themselves to profitability, not much has changed.

ALS - The arrogance of just out of school youngsters thinking that experienced people have no value is a pet peeve of mine. In other societies, age and experience are looked upon as having wisdom and value. But not here - here we value people who are educated beyond their experience.

[ May 05, 2004, 11:27 PM: Message edited by: TooManyWheels ]

Pablo · May 5, 2004

Too Many Wheels nailed it big time.

There are many, many more plain failures than the high blown scandals.

ALS · May 6, 2004

How about the commercial for the shipping company FedEx or UPS and the newly hired MBA. The Black heavy set women walks in and asks the young kid to come help her with something. So she takes him into the shipping department shows him the computer and says here you go just follow the instructions on the screen. He looks at her with a condescending look and say's "I have a MBA"
She says something like Oh, in that case I'd better show you how to do it. I lose it every time I see that commercial since it is so true on this new generation of Kids coming out of Business school.

JohnBrowning · May 12, 2004

Toomany wheels hit the nail on the head. I work with math majors I mean engineers every day. Most of them need to have to have everything spoon feed to them. They can not conceptualize thing because they have never seen all the pieces together before. Most have never touched a wrench or socket in their life. Most have have hands that look like womens hands. If you do not dry them a picture and them give them a swift kick in the arse they will just procratanate!

DO not get me wrong their are some good one as well but they are the minority. Too much book work not enough hands on training. It is really hard to find an engineer younger then 50 that is worth talking too.

On the other hand I also work with managment that is clueless as to haw to manage. Their are some that have no idea who Demming is, who Maslow was, what morale is or how to do team building!! They know how to tear down but never bother to build anyone back up!

JohnBrowning · May 12, 2004

Here is my $.02 on how to turn GM around!

I honestly belive that most large corperations like GM are two heavy and marketing personel. You could easily cut 60% and not hurt the company so long as you kept the top performers!Their is also a lot of dead weight in engineering. The problem is that internal politics keep the company from doing what needs to be done for self preservation!

If I had my way GM would restructure radicly.

1)All bread and butter cars and minivans would be Chevrolet's and all would be fwd or awd.
2) All performance models would be Pontiacs.
3) All Trucks and SUV's would be GMC's.
4) Buicks would be near luxury and rear wheel drive only.
5) Cadilac would be total Luxury and only rear wheel drive.
6) Power trains would be shared and the best power trains would stay the poorer designs would be trashed. The power trains would be developed in concert with one another so most parts could be made modular.(Some consesions like heads and cam profiles.)
7) You would not have body styles shared across devisions. SO you would not have a J "Caviler" as a Pontiac sunfire or a cadilic simeron etc...
8) We would depend on quality, long term durability, ride, handeling, NVH to sell the vechiles not incentives!!
9)Marketing would take a back seat to engineering.
10) A large chunk of the excutives and middle management would be let go!
11) A lot of internal controls would be set up to minimize internal politics.

427Z06 · May 12, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
I work with math majors I mean engineers every day. Most of them need to have to have everything spoon feed to them. They can not conceptualize thing because they have never seen all the pieces together before. Most have never touched a wrench or socket in their life. Most have have hands that look like womens hands. If you do not dry them a picture and them give them a swift kick in the arse they will just procratanate!

Yes, but can they at least spell?

Just kidding, John. Although...as well read as you are, and as intelligent as your postings demonstrate, for the life of me, I can't figure out why you hate engineers so? Is it envy? Are you resentful that someone went the extra mile and got a 4-year sheepskin from an accredited university? I don't mean to start a flame war with you, but I do notice that you usually have mostly negative things to say about engineers in general.

This all kinda' reminds of a young woman I onced lived with. She was odd because not only was she very attractive, but she was formerly an ASE certified mechanic for GM, had her A&P license, and worked for GE as a Jet Engine technician at an AF engine overhaul facility. (I was in the USAF at the time). One day she came home and began to laugh as she related the story of how she starting working with a new engineer fresh out of school that day. She was quite amused by the fact that this new engineer didn't even know what knurling was. I replied, hmmm, if I gave you a triple integration problem, would you know how to solve it? She said, of course not. I replied, same thing. You're both smart people, she just knows different stuff. That's why we have both engineers and technicians. It took awhile to convince her, but she finally bought into it.

Most new engineers, don't have a lot of practical experience unless they developed it on their own beforehand, or happen to be lucky enough to go to a school that recognizes it's a good thing to have and promote things such as a CO-OP program. Many students choose the engineering field because they discovered it late in their academic career or because of the promise they'd find a good job when they got out of school. Also keep in mind that 4 years doesn't leave a lot of time to teach these kids things that technicians are taught in addition to engineering and liberal arts. Engineers aren't better than technicians or vice versa. They just chose a different career path.

New culture at GM

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