New Chonda Briggs & Stratton

[mechjames]

This is what I heard from our Briggs and Stratton rep today.

Later this year, to compete with the cheap homeowner quality market, Briggs and Stratton is coming out with a Chinese engine, similar to the Chondas floating around. Difference is, Briggs is also buying up a bunch of stocking replacement parts to go with them. Chondas with parts availability through Briggs and Stratton, ugh.


With the Chonda posts on this forum, I would recommend you keep your old mowers going. Sure, parts will be available, but do ya wanna be fixing it? The only thing I didn't understand, was when the rep said "they're buying a bunch of replacement parts to go with the engines..." does that mean, for these engines there is only limited availability of replacement parts, and when they're all gone, you're out of luck? There goes keeping your machine for long term.

People wonder why a nice new Briggs engine to repower their old toro sportlawn's is $400. It's because its just as good as the old engine your reel mower came with. Now people will probably just repower with a Chinese briggs.

Makes me wonder how they got these Chinese engines to pass the EPA laws.

Parts availability for older engines is good, and there is a great aftermarket for everything. Keep the old stuff going. Who knows what the reliability of these Chinese engines could be.

We assembled a new Craftsman rotor tiller with a Chonda from new for an older customer a couple of years ago. That machine was surging engine speed right when it was new. Now I see craftsman has gone back to Briggs on the tillers and snowblowers for now, since Tecumseh has gone out of business. I wonder if Sears has some influence on this decision Briggs made.

 

[Colt45ws]

Couldnt be any worse. My grandpa bought a Craftsman tiller with a 8HP OHV B&S several years ago. Unfortunately he waited over a year (=warranty) to try to use it. Nothing. Couldnt hardly turn it over. I took the engine to shop class (shows how long ago this was, I was a senior in HS, Im 21 now.) and took it apart. To say the rockers were out of adjustment would be an understatement. They were barely on the studs. Looked up the specs, put it slightly tight for wear in and it fired right up.

 

[dwendt44]

IF you know where to look, a Honda mower engine can be had for $200+shipping.

 

[JTK]

I just assumed Briggs did this a year or 3 ago with the current line of small OHV engines? The parts availablity deal is the wave of the future unfortunately. You're not going to (easily) be able to get parts for your old flathead as time goes on as the new old stock & used stuff gets gobbled up. Everybody wants big box prices and convenience. The only way they can compete is by cheapening the product so we get what we get.

Joel

 

[Nick R]

Dang. Now even good ol briggs and stratton have succumbed to the giant looming menace that is chinese manufactured engines.

 

[boraticus]

B&S have been going Chinese for a while now. Important internal components for their engines have been made in China for some time.

I have two schools of thought on this. Firstly, I most certainly do not like the North American manufacturing base being eroded to the point of obscurity by moving it to China. We are losing a skill set/manufacturing capability/establishment that have kept our hand in the game for some time. It will be very difficult and expensive to recover it once it's gone.

On the up side, the world's leading manufacturers have provided China with enough technological know how to allow them to learn how to reproduce quality products at a fraction of the original cost.

Now that China has the infrastructure to build all this stuff, all they need is a uninterrupted supply of raw materials. Much of which is available within their own borders and the balance coming from resource based countries such as Canada (nickel ore, iron ore etc.) , Russia (titanium, gasoline etc.), South America (Chilean copper) just to mention a few.

We keep feeding the machine and they keep supplying us with manufactured goods. Slowly but surely disassembling our manufacturing base plant by plant... It's our own fault. We, as a society no longer appreciate high quality nor are we willing to pay for it.

I'm not talking about the motor heads that participate in forums such as this. I'm talking about the McDonald's eating, Walmart shopping, hordes earning close to minimum wage because all of the high paying jobs are leaving the continent.

It's vicious cycle indeed.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Dang. Now even good ol briggs and stratton have succumbed to the giant looming menace that is chinese manufactured engines.


I was thinking the same thing.

 

[JustinH]

Take a walk down the mower aisle at walmart. You can get a basic lawnmower with a briggs engine for $149.

People aren't replacing anything on these motors, they probably aren't even changing the oil, they just replace the whole mower every few years.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: JustinH
Take a walk down the mower aisle at walmart. You can get a basic lawnmower with a briggs engine for $149.

People aren't replacing anything on these motors, they probably aren't even changing the oil, they just replace the whole mower every few years.



I agree. We are becoming a throw away society right at the time when we shouldn't be. The ecological effects of that type of activity cannot be positive. How can building, using, replacing four mowers over a twenty year period be ecologically better than using one well maintained machine?

That goes for a lot of other manufactured products as well.

 

[Colt45ws]

You know what happens when someone buys one of those mowers at Walmart and returns it for any reason? The "Pour gas in it and run it" thing is very common. Even though it has multiple warnings to fill it with oil you just cant get through to some people. Then you have the ones who overfill it with oil then cant figure out why it smokes like a chimney. They all get the dumpster.

 

[mechanicx]

+1. A vicious cycle and a role reversal. It's like they will become the idealized 1950's America and we'll become 1950's China

.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Onmo'Eegusee
You know what happens when someone buys one of those mowers at Walmart and returns it for any reason? The "Pour gas in it and run it" thing is very common. Even though it has multiple warnings to fill it with oil you just cant get through to some people. Then you have the ones who overfill it with oil then cant figure out why it smokes like a chimney. They all get the dumpster.


I'm all for the customer is always right, but Walmart shouldn't enable and reward that kind of stupidity. Anyone who doesn't oil fill their $150 Walmart mower deserves to eat the cost.

 

[mechjames]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx


I'm all for the customer is always right, but Walmart shouldn't enable and reward that kind of stupidity. Anyone who doesn't oil fill their $150 Walmart mower deserves to eat the cost.


There's a company like that up here called "Canadian Tire" and they simply send it to us for warranty work, they don't exchange it for the customer. We get it , pull it, it's seized, and the free bottle of oil is still in the box. The customer then eats the cost of the mower and the company eats $35 estimate charge for their stupidity of sending it back to us with gas in it and a full oil bottle.



Originally Posted By: lexus114
Now even good ol briggs and stratton have succumbed to the giant looming menace that is chinese manufactured engines.


Note how I said they're coming out with a Chinese engine to compete with the [censored] that sears and mtd is putting out.

You can still buy a better briggs, commercial brings, intek briggs, v twin briggs, ohv briggs, l-head briggs, but now you can buy a chinese briggs too. The good ol stuff isn't going away, its just that most people who simply think of their mower as a disposable item will be buying those now.

 

[lars11]

Hmm, I guess there's chinese and chinese stuff. If SonyEricsson puts up a plant making SE phones you bet you will also get SE quality. If on the other hand you ask someone to work for free without supervision or good material, you will get bad management quality. In china or elsewhere.
The reasoning about everything chinese being somehow bad is just stupid.
If your only purchase decision is "not chinese", you will make strange deals.
They are like Japan in the 50s, but look at Japan now. China will align to the rest of the world and we will be aligned with China. That's not a threat. That's a promise.
And, how bloody difficult is it to make a good quality one banger?

 

[Maritime Storm]

Originally Posted By: mechjames

I'm all for the customer is always right, but Walmart shouldn't enable and reward that kind of stupidity. Anyone who doesn't oil fill their $150 Walmart mower deserves to eat the cost.


There's a company like that up here called "Canadian Tire" and they simply send it to us for warranty work, they don't exchange it for the customer. We get it , pull it, it's seized, and the free bottle of oil is still in the box. The customer then eats the cost of the mower and the company eats $35 estimate charge for their stupidity of sending it back to us with gas in it and a full oil bottle."

Unless our customer complains enough, then the manager gives them a new one. Stupidity is equal on both of our counter sometimes.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: mechjames
Originally Posted By: mechanicx


I'm all for the customer is always right, but Walmart shouldn't enable and reward that kind of stupidity. Anyone who doesn't oil fill their $150 Walmart mower deserves to eat the cost.


There's a company like that up here called "Canadian Tire" and they simply send it to us for warranty work, they don't exchange it for the customer. We get it , pull it, it's seized, and the free bottle of oil is still in the box. The customer then eats the cost of the mower and the company eats $35 estimate charge for their stupidity of sending it back to us with gas in it and a full oil bottle.



Originally Posted By: lexus114
Now even good ol briggs and stratton have succumbed to the giant looming menace that is chinese manufactured engines.


Note how I said they're coming out with a Chinese engine to compete with the [censored] that sears and mtd is putting out.

You can still buy a better briggs, commercial brings, intek briggs, v twin briggs, ohv briggs, l-head briggs, but now you can buy a chinese briggs too. The good ol stuff isn't going away, its just that most people who simply think of their mower as a disposable item will be buying those now.


Lets hope that is the case.

 

[boraticus]

I don't agree that all engines coming out of China are junk. On the contrary. I've had one Chinese built Mitsubishi 6.5 h.p. mounted on pressure washer and have had it for at least five years. From appearances, it looks very well built and operationally, it's been a very good engine. It also sees quite a bit of work. When my neighbours little electric machines can't get the job done, they're at my door looking to use my gas powered unit. Between the three of us, it sees a fair amount of hours during spring to fall.

I've recently purchased a Champion generator with a 6 h.p. Chinese Honda clone. I cannot speak toward it's durability because it's new. However, it also looks very well built, starts on the first pull and is one of the quietest and smoothest single cylinder engines I've used.

Therein lies the quandary. The Chinese are making good stuff and selling it for considerably less than domestic products. Some domestic manufacturers are harnessing the manufacturing might of Chinese plants with their cheap labour, just to survive.

We as consumers save a few bucks when we buy a Chinese built product but every time we do, we're putting a nail in the coffin of another domestic plant.

Briggs and Stratton have been around for a while and I suspect that they will be here for some time to come. Their survival will depend on tapping Chinese cost savings opportunities by having components built in China with final assembly of their products being done on this side of the ocean. That way, they will keep a loyal following and hopefully sufficient market share for them to survive. I would suspect however, that if they shipped all the work overseas, their market would dissipate over time.

China is a reality. Their aggressive attitude toward world wide manufacturing dominance will not diminish as long as there is a market for well made (and some not so well made) inexpensive products. They began their North American invasion ten to fifteen years ago when Walmart opened the doors for them. Now they are firmly entrenched and likely to be the dominant manufacturer of many, many products for years to come. Only the future will reveal how many domestic manufacturers and jobs will be lost as a result.

 

[lexus114]

Just take good care of the pump on your pressure washer. Thats what I would be concerned about because most of the lower priced PW`s like mine,have that cheap Faip pump.

 

[Cmarti]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
I don't agree that all engines coming out of China are junk. On the contrary. I've had one Chinese built Mitsubishi 6.5 h.p. mounted on pressure washer and have had it for at least five years. From appearances, it looks very well built and operationally, it's been a very good engine. It also sees quite a bit of work. When my neighbours little electric machines can't get the job done, they're at my door looking to use my gas powered unit. Between the three of us, it sees a fair amount of hours during spring to fall.

I've recently purchased a Champion generator with a 6 h.p. Chinese Honda clone. I cannot speak toward it's durability because it's new. However, it also looks very well built, starts on the first pull and is one of the quietest and smoothest single cylinder engines I've used.

Therein lies the quandary. The Chinese are making good stuff and selling it for considerably less than domestic products. Some domestic manufacturers are harnessing the manufacturing might of Chinese plants with their cheap labour, just to survive.

We as consumers save a few bucks when we buy a Chinese built product but every time we do, we're putting a nail in the coffin of another domestic plant.

Briggs and Stratton have been around for a while and I suspect that they will be here for some time to come. Their survival will depend on tapping Chinese cost savings opportunities by having components built in China with final assembly of their products being done on this side of the ocean. That way, they will keep a loyal following and hopefully sufficient market share for them to survive. I would suspect however, that if they shipped all the work overseas, their market would dissipate over time.

China is a reality. Their aggressive attitude toward world wide manufacturing dominance will not diminish as long as there is a market for well made (and some not so well made) inexpensive products. They began their North American invasion ten to fifteen years ago when Walmart opened the doors for them. Now they are firmly entrenched and likely to be the dominant manufacturer of many, many products for years to come. Only the future will reveal how many domestic manufacturers and jobs will be lost as a result.



Agreed it is a reality. We bash our own companies if they outsource anything, then shake our head if they go under. I don't know how you compete with the wage structure in asia?

I tend to avoid chinese manufacturing not for quality, but for loyalty to the rust belt and steel industry I grew up in. No logic there, just how I feel. However, I picked up a Chonda powered generator 4 years ago while my Honda was down, and the darn thing has been flawless. The power is not as clean from the generator side, but the 6.5 clone has hundreds of hours on it. Good luck with yours

 

[Cujet]

I really find it hard to believe that the Chinese stuff is actually cheaper. The Briggs powered mowers are as cheap as $99 at WalMart. If Briggs can make an engine for well less than 100 bucks, how much cheaper are the Chinese engines? From what I see, none of them are less than 100 bucks.

My last Briggs powered mower lasted 11 years of weekly use in Florida. And, I gave it away, still working just fine. Can a Chinese engine do that? Maybe, but, maybe not.