new battery can give 300 mi range in just 5 min

[JeffKeryk]

Do I have the slowest EV on the forum or do we give that title to the Leaf owners on here? I guess I should say I have the slowest "modern" EV on here. Can we trade cars for a week?

Jokes aside, I think 5 minute charging is cool but it doesn't really solve any problems. Even with 150kw peak charging and what's probably worst in class efficiency, I've never really had any issues with the Prologue's charging. I'd take a battery that lasts 200K miles with minimal degradation and 30 minute charge times over a battery that is cooked by 100K miles with 5 minute charge times.

I have a great EV use case... But you haven't experienced nice until you just plug in and have a full tank in the morning.

Come by LG or Petaluma. Take the car. All good.

 

[andrew_j]

I thinks it’s pretty incredible , EVs are coming whether you like it or not. China will crush this market.

Complaints of they charge too slow addressed.

 

[Cujet]

And my car is faster than yours.... High 10 second qtr... Maybe the fastest car on the forum? What ya got? Talk to me...

Quicker, absolutely, my Jag is in the 12's. Faster top speed, the F-Type is likely faster than a new Model 3P. When stock, the Jag I drive had a 171mph speed limiter which it easily runs into.

With the tune and pulleys I have, they are said to reach 185-188. E85 tune with my config is said to be 575HP and 202MPH. But I can't be bothered with E85's inconsistencies locally and the risk of a bad batch.

I will never admit to any top speed runs. I'm an old man and drive like one.

Plaid owners here can probably reach 200+, which just amazes me.

 

[eljefino]

I wouldnt mind 150miles range if they could put an efficient 50hp motor in there somewhere as a range extender.

The 150 would be fine for 95% weekly tasks.. the range extender for when you have a longer trip with no charging infrastructure or dont want a 20-30min charging pitstop every 2-3 hours.

But wait those wouldnt be an EV with incentives??!?! cant do everything that makes sense.

You could do that with 10 hp, 150 lbs, and a receiver hitch. It only takes around 10hp to push a car through the wind at speed. Even if you needed more most of the time it would seriously stretch your "glide angle" towards empty.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I will never admit to any top speed runs. I'm an old man and drive like one.

I may have hit 90 in the M3P; not sure I've seen triple digits. I was messing with a Taycan 4S yesterday... It wasn't the Turbo model, so he was probably at a power disadvantage. I won't say we were in the higher 80's for a bit....

Just a little friendly fun on wide open 280 south of The City.
You have a beautiful car.

 

[Rand]

You could do that with 10 hp, 150 lbs, and a receiver hitch. It only takes around 10hp to push a car through the wind at speed. Even if you needed more most of the time it would seriously stretch your "glide angle" towards empty.

you need 15-20kw for highway.. which is about 40hp.

10hp would be 5-6kw which would get you "18-24miles per hour".(or less in some EV) Going 70-80mph that isnt going to cut it
I was getting run over by everything including semis going 77mph on 71S last week.

 

[OVERKILL]

BYD, just announced a new battery that can give you 300 mi of range in just 5 min of charging But it needs a 1000 kw charger and who knows what else

During the Cold War, the Soviets produced a version of the MIG, the MIG-25, which, while technically capable of attaining the SR-71's cruising speed of Mach 3.2, would require engine rebuilds upon return if actually performed.

The laws that govern battery charging are very similar. Just because conceivably, if you can keep it cool, you can blast obscene amounts of energy into one, doesn't mean you aren't dramatically reducing its useful lifespan in doing so.

 

[alarmguy]

I thinks it’s pretty incredible , EVs are coming whether you like it or not. China will crush this market.

Complaints of they charge too slow addressed.

I agree, however the question would be too many.
Why buy an EV?

They certainly do not have all the conveniences of gasoline vehicles for the majority.

They are smaller, more heavy, more expensive, and more expensive to insure.
The average American cannot afford a large electric vehicle SUV compared to a medium to large SUV gasoline model.
Actually large to medium electric vehicles don’t even exist at a competitive price point

I do think and agree with you China has it going on but I suspect in the next two decades something much better than lithium batteries will come along.

Anyway, in the United States, they will remain specific use vehicles unless prices can be made more competitive so Vehicle sizes can get larger.
Other than that, why electric vehicle?

It certainly fills a place in many households, but not close to the majority as a main vehicle.
It also fills a place for the high performance, enthusiast crowd again in small vehicles

 

[Brons2]

It’s not quite there, but 400kW DC chargers are becoming much more common in the USA. IONNA will be one of the top 2 largest US networks in just a few years and their minimum output is all 400kW. 500kW chargers will be here soon (CCS1&NACS), and Alpitronic’s 1,000kW chargers (MCS connectors) have already been revealed.

https://www.alpitronic.it/us/hypercharger/hyc-1000/

They can say their minimum is 400KW all they want, but, unless the vehicle calls for 400kw it's not going to supply that much. My Lightning maxes out around 180 and the Mach-E around 130.

Perhaps a better way of putting it wold be "The baseline Ionna charging station is capable of 400KW minimum".

 

[Brons2]

Really?
I don’t agree. The biggest hindrance to electric vehicles for a majority of the people is the inconvenience of recharging the car.
Well, another hindrance is also the price of the vehicle.

If an electric vehicle can recharge as fast as gasoline refueling, that would be a major breakthrough.
Well, China has done it.
If Americans could do it, they could be recharge stations just like gas stations. In and out, no concerns, no matter where you are.

We don't quite meet the standards of "pull off at any exit" like gas, yet. Just took an 800 mile road trip in my SR Lightning and South Texas is challenging, extremely challenging if you don't have Tesla Supercharger access, that said, there is a 60 mile stretch with no gas stations, either, on US-77/I-69, when you're transiting Kenedy County, TX in the area of the real-life King Ranch.

Another gripe is the V1 Tesla superchargers that are Tesla-only. We just need to be done with those already. Non-Tesla owners will pay.

 

[PandaBear]

I agree, however the question would be too many.
Why buy an EV?

They certainly do not have all the conveniences of gasoline vehicles for the majority.

They are smaller, more heavy, more expensive, and more expensive to insure.
The average American cannot afford a large electric vehicle SUV compared to a medium to large SUV gasoline model.
Actually large to medium electric vehicles don’t even exist at a competitive price point

I do think and agree with you China has it going on but I suspect in the next two decades something much better than lithium batteries will come along.

Anyway, in the United States, they will remain specific use vehicles unless prices can be made more competitive so Vehicle sizes can get larger.
Other than that, why electric vehicle?

It certainly fills a place in many households, but not close to the majority as a main vehicle.
It also fills a place for the high performance, enthusiast crowd again in small vehicles

I think the fundamental reasons are:

1) Emission is easier to manage when they are away from drivers and residents, and move to centralized power plant burning natural gas
2) It is easier to get higher efficiency in a combine cycle gas plant than burning gasoline in a smallish combustion engine. CCGT gets like 50-60% efficiency in the powerplant then 80% in the vehicle, whereas gas engine in Prius get like 40% max and 25% average (not including the refinery efficiency). It would be more if you use nuclear and hydro.
3) You can take advantage of idle capacity at night time when nobody is driving and using electricity to charge the EV
4) We have a lot more natural gas we don't know what to do with than oil in the ground.

The more expensive and more expensive to insure thing is probably due to economy of scale. This doesn't apply to every country in the world.

Honestly, I don't think EV is any better than hybrid in most cases in the US. We produce oil, we drive big vehicles, we have the money, we don't have to worry about another super power in the world blockade us in oil import. Hybrid get probably 50-80% of all the benefits of EV at a much lower cost (battery is more expensive than engine). I can understand why China or Europe need EV, but not sure if we do.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

BYD, just announced a new battery that can give you 300 mi of range in just 5 min of charging But it needs a 1000 kw charger and who knows what else

Basically 1.21 gigawatts? Didn't work out so well for the last guy

 

[ecotourist]

We don't quite meet the standards of "pull off at any exit" like gas, yet. Just took an 800 mile road trip in my SR Lightning and South Texas is challenging, extremely challenging if you don't have Tesla Supercharger access, that said, there is a 60 mile stretch with no gas stations, either, on US-77/I-69, when you're transiting Kenedy County, TX in the area of the real-life King Ranch.

When I was a kid, one of my friends had a visit from an uncle who lived in northern BC and drove a late 50's Ford with a big V8. The uncle said his car would "pass anything but a gas station". He carried gas cans in the trunk to get through some of the long stretches between gas stations.

So range anxiety isn't a new thing.

We should have a North American Standard charging system and require every EV sold here (or imported here) be compatible with it. Lots of things have a universal standard - electrical plug ins, sheets of plywood, flashlight batteries, light bulbs, etc. Can you imagine the public standing for gas stations that only worked with some vehicles.

 

[alarmguy]

When I was a kid, one of my friends had a visit from an uncle who lived in northern BC and drove a late 50's Ford with a big V8. The uncle said his car would "pass anything but a gas station". He carried gas cans in the trunk to get through some of the long stretches between gas stations.

So range anxiety isn't a new thing.

We should have a North American Standard charging system and require every EV sold here (or imported here) be compatible with it. Lots of things have a universal standard - electrical plug ins, sheets of plywood, flashlight batteries, light bulbs, etc. Can you imagine the public standing for gas stations that only worked with some vehicles.

Range anxiety doesn’t exist for gasoline vehicles in the United States when compared to electric.
A lot has changed in 65 years

I do agree standard charging plugs are common sense and that’s pretty much getting that way anyway. I mean, let’s face it. Electric vehicles have only been out a couple years.

100% disagree that we should have a North American charging system. Last thing we need is taxpayers footing the bill for what should be a free enterprise system in a free market economy.
As it is, we’re trying to abolish taxpayers giving other people $7500 to buy an electric vehicle.
It wouldn’t go over well for taxpayers to pay for those people to be able to charge their cars too.

I mean, what’s the purpose of an electric vehicle except for somebody else’s desire to own one. If so, they should put the bill.
That would be fine if the taxpayers would give me $7500 to buy my V6 large gasoline SUV

 

[Torrid]

Quicker, absolutely, my Jag is in the 12's. Faster top speed, the F-Type is likely faster than a new Model 3P. When stock, the Jag I drive had a 171mph speed limiter which it easily runs into.

With the tune and pulleys I have, they are said to reach 185-188. E85 tune with my config is said to be 575HP and 202MPH. But I can't be bothered with E85's inconsistencies locally and the risk of a bad batch.

I will never admit to any top speed runs. I'm an old man and drive like one.

Plaid owners here can probably reach 200+, which just amazes me.

Literally the best looking modern Jag by far.

 

[ecotourist]

100% disagree that we should have a North American charging system. Last thing we need is taxpayers footing the bill for what should be a free enterprise system in a free market economy.

This doesn't have to cost the taxpayer anything (okay maybe a few $ thousand in seed money).

How much does having standard size sheets of plywood or standard size light bulb bases cost you or anyone else? Most standards are proposed and organized by industry.

I was a representative of an interested group who attended CSA (Canadian Standards Association) meetings. I did so out of interest and to represent my group. I wasn't paid a cent, not even reimbursement for parking.

I attended a standard setting meeting in another context. There was a coordinator (an academic who was paid by the university) who wrote a report on what was said, and recommended the standard based on the discussion. And someone (maybe the federal government, maybe an industry association) paid for the meeting room rental. That might have cost as much as $1,000. The interested parties attended on their own dime. And at the end, there it was, an agreed upon standard.

 

[GrumpyCat]

We should have a North American Standard charging system and require every EV sold here (or imported here) be compatible with it. Lots of things have a universal standard - electrical plug ins, sheets of plywood, flashlight batteries, light bulbs, etc. Can you imagine the public standing for gas stations that only worked with some vehicles.

We have one: CCS: Common Charging Standard. Is the ANSI standard created by All The Automakers, with the exception of Tesla.

Then they expected farmers whose only "crop" is government handouts to build and run the CCS fast charging systems. That worked exactly as well as any reasonable person would expect. It worked so bad you'd think it was a Disney reboot of Snow White.

Then one day Ford had enough and joined Tesla's Supercharging network, created a NACS adapter for their vehicles and started putting NACS on new EVs as soon as they could. GM fell in line quickly after.

So, we do have a North American Charging Standard, it is the Tesla Supercharger. The same plug is used on Tesla L2 connectors (they are fancy extension cords, not chargers) such as the Mobile Connector and Wall Connector where they speak the same J1772 protocol as the J1772 connector.

Way back when, when the SAE/ANSI committee was "designing" their charging system and connector Tesla tried to give them the current NACS connector but the committee didn't believe DC charging was going to be necessary and didn't like having AC and DC on the same pins. No matter the pins are not powered until communication is established with the vehicle, they thought they would have to pay for more expensive DC rated contactors if there was any possibility of DC being present. AC contactors and switches cost less than DC.

So the committee rejected the elegant Tesla NACS connector in favor of the butt-ugly J1772,

And then when they were forced to add DC charging support they made yet another committee decision and grafted DC pins to the J1772 connector resulting in CCS.

Then there was the mess of entities whose primary interest was to collect government funds, "built" the CCS charging networks. Hired one contractor to build hardware. Another to write software for that hardware to communicated with the EV. Hired another contractor to write the billing software. Other contractors to build the charging sites. Other contractors to maintain the charging sites. And then couldn't understand why the work of all these contractors was not meshing together as one smooth operation?

Then there is Tesla who built the Supercharger network without government funding. Didn't qualify as a one-make solution. Spent their own money. Designed their own hardware. Wrote their own software. They did train contractors to build the Supercharger sites. The result is night and day versus the CCS debacle.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Range anxiety doesn’t exist for gasoline vehicles in the United States when compared to electric.
A lot has changed in 65 years

EV range anxiety only exists in the minds of imaginative ICE drivers.

100% disagree that we should have a North American charging system. Last thing we need is taxpayers footing the bill for what should be a free enterprise system in a free market economy.

Every CCS charging station, every non-Tesla Supercharger is government subsidized. CCS has failed as bad as the Snow White reboot.

As it is, we’re trying to abolish taxpayers giving other people $7500 to buy an electric vehicle.
It wouldn’t go over well for taxpayers to pay for those people to be able to charge their cars too.

And the beauty of it is how at government subsidized CCS chargers one pays about 4x the residential kWh price.

I mean, what’s the purpose of an electric vehicle except for somebody else’s desire to own one. If so, they should put the bill.
That would be fine if the taxpayers would give me $7500 to buy my V6 large gasoline SUV

How much did Obama give UAW when GM went belly up? GM bondholders who had legal priority to be paid were pushed aside to fund UAW's pension plan.

How about Chrysler's multiple bailouts?

 

[ecotourist]

I'd suggest the standard in North America should be NACS (required) with the option of adding anything else. If some automaker really wants CCS or CHAdeMO they can add it. But all EVs must have NACS. That way all EVs can at least charge at the reliable Supercharger Stations.

There you have the standard. Who wants to go for a drink?

 

[Torrid]

I'd suggest the standard in North America should be NACS (required) with the option of adding anything else. If some automaker really wants CCS or CHAdeMO they can add it. But all EVs must have NACS. That way all EVs can at least charge at the reliable Supercharger Stations.

There you have the standard. Who wants to go for a drink?

I think that's the only reason why so many want NACS. Tesla has made a push to get other manufacturers to adopt it, but with all the horror stories I've seen dealing with other charging stations I've never bothered to get a CCS adapter to supplement Superchargers. Every Supercharger I've ever used has worked flawlessly and they're in the spots I need. Why bother with anything else?