new battery can give 300 mi range in just 5 min

[GrumpyCat]

Really?
I don’t agree. The biggest hindrance to electric vehicles for a majority of the people is the inconvenience of recharging the car.
Well, another hindrance is also the price of the vehicle.

If an electric vehicle can recharge as fast as gasoline refueling, that would be a major breakthrough.
Well, China has done it.
If Americans could do it, they could be recharge stations just like gas stations. In and out, no concerns, no matter where you are.

I charge my Tesla in 30 seconds.

Takes 15 seconds extra to move the charge umbilical into the charge port.
And 15 seconds the next morning to remove it.

To fill my ICE I must divert from my route. Even if I am driving past a suitable gas station it takes time to turn off the road and find an available pump. Then key the pump with my credit card, insert nozzle, pump, replace nozzle, take receipt and check for accuracy, log the data, get in vehicle, resume my travel. Commonly 15 minutes if one actually times it. Or only 2 minutes from memory because you have done it so many times you don't remember the details.

Even longer if one pays inside and is tempted by the "convenience store".

 

[LavaRand]

Where do EV drivers clean their windshields if they never have to stop for gas? Do they buy their own windshield squeegees?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Really?
I don’t agree. The biggest hindrance to electric vehicles for a majority of the people is the inconvenience of recharging the car.
Well, another hindrance is also the price of the vehicle.

If an electric vehicle can recharge as fast as gasoline refueling, that would be a major breakthrough.
Well, China has done it.
If Americans could do it, they could be recharge stations just like gas stations. In and out, no concerns, no matter where you are.

AG, people still want EVs to be like ICE. Of course that's natural because that's the standard and has been for so long. Would it be good to charge in 5 to 10 minutes? Sure.

I start out every day with a full tank and pay next to nothing. I don't know of any ICE that can do that.
It's gotten to the point I dread gassing up my other vehicles; a waste of time, outta my way and CA gas prices are wack.

Now, for those who need to charge away from home (or work) at public charging, sure a quick top off would be nice. But for many use cases, it is more of a nice-to-have than a necessity.

I used to think recharging issues rendered EV to toys; I was wrong. You learn. When an ICE car can do an oil change, timing belt, plugs, filters, etc in zero time people will accept them.
Just my 2 cents. All good.

 

[CKN]

It's an EV thread-some of the comments are "less than intelligent."
You know who you are..........

 

[Torrid]

Where do EV drivers clean their windshields if they never have to stop for gas? Do they buy their own windshield squeegees?

My driveway?

 

[JimPghPA]

The charger would have to take into account the problems that come along with magnetic fields that would be generated.

If DC it would have to ramp up slow at the beginning, and ramp down slow at the end.

If AC, how many phases, what frequency, what voltage, and is it Y or Delta? And don't forget all the safety required for high voltage.

 

[Jetronic]

This is correct. I would even say most range past say 150 miles is also irrelevant to the average guy, but car companies are still competing on range. Most people drive about 40 miles per day and EV ranges reached "accceptable" to "the average guy" way back in the 90s. But fast charging speed and long range are "halo" products. They make the product look better to the consumer, even if they aren't capabilities that are actually needed. He may never need to charge 200 miles of range in 5 minutes, but he'll know that he can, and that will sell cars. A whole bunch of car capabilities are "not needed" halo products that nobody needs or will hardly ever use. Average Joe doesn't need zero to 60 in 4 seconds either, but he'll know that he can, and that will sell cars too. We don't see automakers saying "nobody really needs to go faster than 0 to 60 in faster than 15 seconds so we'll make the car cheaper". Instead they build to 4 seconds even though they know nobody needs it.

if the car charges in 5 minutes, I don't care about range much either.

The above mentioned battery at 25% size, 25% cost and weight, that charges in 5 minutes on a +- 250Kwh charger is fine for me.

 

[alarmguy]

AG, people still want EVs to be like ICE. Of course that's natural because that's the standard and has been for so long. Would it be good to charge in 5 to 10 minutes? Sure.

I start out every day with a full tank and pay next to nothing. I don't know of any ICE that can do that.
It's gotten to the point I dread gassing up my other vehicles; a waste of time, outta my way and CA gas prices are wack.

Now, for those who need to charge away from home (or work) at public charging, sure a quick top off would be nice. But for many use cases, it is more of a nice-to-have than a necessity.

I used to think recharging issues rendered EV to toys; I was wrong. You learn. When an ICE car can do an oil change, timing belt, plugs, filters, etc in zero time people will accept them.
Just my 2 cents. All good.

Yes, but your use is one specific use for one car at one house.
You are a small minority compared to the population

For instance, many people do not have access to plug in a car at a home of any type be at a apartment building condo or house

Second, I do not know one family in my community of thousands where there is only one vehicle. Just like your own house you only have one electric vehicle versus may be up to three other cars.

The typical family has at least two cars in their driveway. What I’m saying is your situation is clearly unique and so is the weather where you live.

There is no way electric vehicles will ever be fully accepted as a majority until just now if this new battery and system developed in China works out.

There is no way multicar families, multifamily homes, and people who just enjoy driving, will settle for anything less if and only if electric vehicles will be a majority.

There are many many reasons whythat could happen in less than 100 years.
One of those reasons I think about this, 300 million gasoline vehicles on the road in the United States. It will take at least 100 years if that’s even possible to build the electric generation system and grid to support electrically charging up 300 million cars. Heck we’re not even at 5 million right now.

I know you know I am nothing or can electric vehicles but as of right now they’re for specific uses such as your own one electric vehicle along with multiplegasoline vehicles

 

[Torrid]

Yes, but your use is one specific use for one car at one house.
You are a small minority compared to the population

For instance, many people do not have access to plug in a car at a home of any type be at a apartment building condo or house

Second, I do not know one family in my community of thousands where there is only one vehicle. Just like your own house you only have one electric vehicle versus may be up to three other cars.

The typical family has at least two cars in their driveway. What I’m saying is your situation is clearly unique and so is the weather where you live.

There is no way electric vehicles will ever be fully accepted as a majority until just now if this new battery and system developed in China works out.

There is no way multicar families, multifamily homes, and people who just enjoy driving, will settle for anything less if and only if electric vehicles will be a majority.

There are many many reasons whythat could happen in less than 100 years.
One of those reasons I think about this, 300 million gasoline vehicles on the road in the United States. It will take at least 100 years if that’s even possible to build the electric generation system and grid to support electrically charging up 300 million cars. Heck we’re not even at 5 million right now.

I know you know I am nothing or can electric vehicles but as of right now they’re for specific uses such as your own one electric vehicle along with multiplegasoline vehicles

Maybe I’m weird but I only have EVs. The charger reaches either car so I’ve not bothered installing a second. I drive 20k miles a year and occasionally travel, but most charging is at home. My wife is now driving around 8k miles a year. I was honestly surprised sharing a charger was more than enough to meet our needs.

It’s a whole different thought process to be honest. I learned more once I was daily driving it than I thought I already had figured out and it ended up being easier than I expected and I really wanted it to work for me. It all depends on a person’s situation and charging options though.

 

[Rand]

I wouldnt mind 150miles range if they could put an efficient 50hp motor in there somewhere as a range extender.

The 150 would be fine for 95% weekly tasks.. the range extender for when you have a longer trip with no charging infrastructure or dont want a 20-30min charging pitstop every 2-3 hours.

But wait those wouldnt be an EV with incentives??!?! cant do everything that makes sense.

 

[alarmguy]

Maybe I’m weird but I only have EVs. The charger reaches either car so I’ve not bothered installing a second. I drive 20k miles a year and occasionally travel, but most charging is at home. My wife is now driving around 8k miles a year. I was honestly surprised sharing a charger was more than enough to meet our needs.

It’s a whole different thought process to be honest. I learned more once I was daily driving it than I thought I already had figured out and it ended up being easier than I expected and I really wanted it to work for me. It all depends on a person’s situation and charging options though.

I agree, it all depends on a persons and FAMILY situation.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I would live with EVs only with the huge exception of my trusty '01 Tundra, and it sucks the (expensive CA) gas like a big dog.
It's the best tool I own.

 

[alarmguy]

I would live with EVs only with the huge exception of my trusty '01 Tundra, and it sucks the (expensive CA) gas like a big dog.
It's the best tool I own.

I see I have enough typos in that last post to last a week
There’s a couple in our community with a Lyric that I always see plugged in in their driveway
We just met them at the Pickleball court, and they absolutely love the car.

 

[PandaBear]

Really?
I don’t agree. The biggest hindrance to electric vehicles for a majority of the people is the inconvenience of recharging the car.
Well, another hindrance is also the price of the vehicle.

If an electric vehicle can recharge as fast as gasoline refueling, that would be a major breakthrough.
Well, China has done it.
If Americans could do it, they could be recharge stations just like gas stations. In and out, no concerns, no matter where you are.

That's what battery swap is about.

 

[PandaBear]

I wouldnt mind 150miles range if they could put an efficient 50hp motor in there somewhere as a range extender.

The 150 would be fine for 95% weekly tasks.. the range extender for when you have a longer trip with no charging infrastructure or dont want a 20-30min charging pitstop every 2-3 hours.

But wait those wouldnt be an EV with incentives??!?! cant do everything that makes sense.

I always though there should be a way to have a hybrid and an EV link up for long trip purposes. This way people don't need to drive a big special occasion vehicle daily and still can go long distance without charging. Having the hybrid being the power source generating some electricity for an EV to follow with just a small cable not for towing, but to transfer electricity. The EV being the follower won't use much since aerodynamic push against the hybrid in front, and the hybrid would be more efficient as it go from gas to tire mechanically mostly, instead of engine to electric through a long wire.

If people prefer comfort they can swap them around and have the electric up front and the hybrid in the back, and driver / passenger all being in the EV while the luggage stay in the hybrid in the back (with the gas engine noise).

 

[PandaBear]

The charger would have to take into account the problems that come along with magnetic fields that would be generated.

If DC it would have to ramp up slow at the beginning, and ramp down slow at the end.

If AC, how many phases, what frequency, what voltage, and is it Y or Delta? And don't forget all the safety required for high voltage.

Magnetic field has to do with current and the cross section of the loop between the 2 wires. If you have them really close to each other, twisting them (ethernet cable and phone cord), putting one inside another (coax cable for cable TV and internet), you don't get much of it. Most charger don't have 2 separate cable one for each direction in current, they are just one. The magnetic field would be minimal. For such a large current they would almost always be DC as they don't want to waste it to sine wave not using all the available copper in the wiring.

 

[alarmguy]

That's what battery swap is about.

Yeah, I don’t think realistic, though, certainly not on a massive scale

 

[JeffKeryk]

That's what battery swap is about.

Yeah, I don’t think realistic, though, certainly not on a massive scale

Batteries are very expensive; you would need perhaps 3 batteries for each car. And probably many more. Cars sit a lot.
Battery swap would involve standardization, which ain't gonna happen.
Batteries would end up in large quantities in wrong places at the wrong time; the co-ordination would be a nightmare.

Tesla, and some others, use a structural battery.
Charging is a better solution. Come home and plugs in. Nuthin' too it.

 

[dogememe]

I always though there should be a way to have a hybrid and an EV link up for long trip purposes. This way people don't need to drive a big special occasion vehicle daily and still can go long distance without charging. Having the hybrid being the power source generating some electricity for an EV to follow with just a small cable not for towing, but to transfer electricity. The EV being the follower won't use much since aerodynamic push against the hybrid in front, and the hybrid would be more efficient as it go from gas to tire mechanically mostly, instead of engine to electric through a long wire.

If people prefer comfort they can swap them around and have the electric up front and the hybrid in the back, and driver / passenger all being in the EV while the luggage stay in the hybrid in the back (with the gas engine noise).

OK, so basically put the charge port on the rear of the vehicle, make a trailer that's a generator + DC fast charger in one, and have the car plugged into it while towing the trailer. Make it so the car can drive while charging/accepting power from that port (unlike vehicles now where they can only be put into gear while unplugged).

In theory, that could work... If you have the option to rent the trailer for road trips and pick up/drop it off at a bunch of locations around the country. BUT the cost to make and maintain these generators, especially if you are knowledgeable of how rental stuff is treated/abused, would make it fairly expensive. And, it would not work with any vehicles currently on the road as they are not designed for that type of power flow while driving... and most of them have the charge ports in the wrong place for this to work even if it can be retrofitted/software updated.

 

[dogememe]

Batteries are very expensive; you would need perhaps 3 batteries for each car. And probably many more. Cars sit a lot.
Battery swap would involve standardization, which ain't gonna happen.
Batteries would end up in large quantities in wrong places at the wrong time; the co-ordination would be a nightmare.

Tesla, and some others, use a structural battery.
Charging is a better solution. Come home and plugs in. Nuthin' too it.

This is why I think battery swaps are actually pretty dumb. I think it's great the tech is being explored but unless the vehicles are designed from the ground up for this, it's just not practical. And the very fact that batteries would have to be standard across multiple makes and models of vehicle and not change each year would lead to increased cost, reduced range, reduced performance, and hold back innovation as a whole. Even within a single automaker/platform, (let's take GM Ultium), you can't swap batteries between a Chevy Equinox EV and a Honda Prologue and a GMC Hummer, they're just too different. Different sizes, shapes, cooling requirements... Nobody would buy a Hummer if it had the battery pack of an Equinox EV in there with 1/3 the power LOL.