New 20 offerings from Amsoil

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Buster's "reasoning" was flawed at best.

All I ask is to see the specification.

And all I say is Amsoil motor oils meet the published viscosity requirements for NA. (I have not see other country manuals)

Forgot to answer the question. The benefit of a lower shear oil is longer drains and better protection during a full OLM usage.
 
Quote:
The benefit of a lower shear oil is longer drains and better protection during a full OLM usage.


???
 
Originally Posted By: buster
Quote:
The benefit of a lower shear oil is longer drains and better protection during a full OLM usage.


???


Less shear, I should have written. When I wrote "lower shear oil" I did not mean lower HTHS, I mean less shear in usage. It's hard to type clear thoughts when leaning on one bun and the other is screaming in pain. (I'm standing now and it's not so bad)

Also, your logic here "Amsoil has to design their oils for longer drain intervals. So they are not going to use the required amount of VII to meet the more stringent fuel economy standards." is slightly correct (only because I doubt there will be a fuel economy loss). I was referring to your post saying all the Amsoil 20 oils contains PAO's and are more or less just chucked together.
 
Gotcha. I don't think they are just chucked together. I just don't think they are necessarily that advanced in terms of the latest additives and base oils. Maybe they are, I don't really know. Regardless, they make excellent oils and I have used them many times as you know.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo

All I ask is to see the specification.
And all I say is Amsoil motor oils meet the published viscosity requirements for NA. (I have not see other country manuals)
Forgot to answer the question. The benefit of a lower shear oil is longer drains and better protection during a full OLM usage.


Here are VOA's of the Toyota 0W-20 and Idemitsu USA made Honda 0W-20 by Dyson's lab:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1919589#Post1919589

Toyota's recommended OCI is 10,000 miles.

Oil shear is not a problem with any 20wt oil that I've seen and as I've mentioned it is not an issue with the Toyota or Honda 0W-20's dispite their high VI's. Ive track tested both these oils; currently running the Honda 0W-20 in my track car and it has shown no evidence of shear to date (a reduuction in oil pressure). While not intended as race oils they suit the role well if you want a very light, high moly oil. Particularly suitable when oil temp's are well contained.
 
Quote:
So they are not going to use the required amount of VII to meet the more stringent fuel economy standards.


Just a tribologically-based (non-branded) question here:

How do VII's help fuel economy?
 
Of course they don't, but high VI oils whether it is achieved through naturally higher VI base stocks and/or the use of VIIs will be lighter than oils with the same HTHS vis' but a lower VI at low start-up temp's and during the warming up process.

Probabily the best readily available example of this would be the Toyota Brand 0W-20 with it's 214 VI. We don't know the base oil chemistry but it is assumed to be largely GP III with a significant VII content. The end result is an oil that is lighter at typical start-up temp's than anything else on the market.
This oil was originally intended for hybrid use where frequent start/stop cycling occurs and where full normal operating oil temp's may be delayed if acheived at all during urban driving.
Minimizing the oil's viscosity when cold will improve overall fuel economy.
 
I could also use X% of Yubase 4 or 5, Y% of Yubase 8, and Z% of PAO 300 (where Y>X, Y>>Z) and with the proper additive package (without any VII's) have the following specs:

Kinematic viscosity of 8.8 and 43,
CCS viscosity of VI of .= 170
HTHS >= 2.8
PP of -66F
FP of 440F

The major components assisting fuel economy are the friction modifier(s) and secondly, the viscosity.
 
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All these esoteric arguments in this thread. What is the most cost effective way to meet the requirement for a 0w20 as defined in oil cost, oil longevity, engine longevity, fuel consumption and any other factors you might think of?

It's an interesting question for a 0w20 because IIRC it's the only grade that cannot be a "conventional" oil.
 
Not a lot of 0W-XX oils that aren't true synthetics.

Cost effective and oil longevity are sometimes at odds. Oil blenders are always searching for that magical combination of base oils.
 
Well, what's the sweet spot?

The ALM specs do look pretty awesome, but it's $10.15 a quart before shipping.

If I could get just as good as results with Motorcraft for 1/4th the price for half the distance before TBN depleted, wouldn't that be more cost effective?

(car in sig - lots of short trips so I am wary of overly long OCI, max to date is 6200 with QSUD)

(cost - $80 with shipping & tax on 5 qts ALM with EAO oil filter, $20 for OEM filter + 5 quarts of Motorcraft at WalMart)
 
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Originally Posted By: Brons2
Well, what's the sweet spot?

The ALM specs do look pretty awesome, but I would guess it's probably $11-$12 a quart before shipping.

If I could get just as good as results with Motorcraft for 1/4th the price for half the distance before TBN depleted, wouldn't that be more cost effective?

(car in sig - lots of short trips so I am wary of overly long OCI, max to date is 6200 with QSUD)

The highest price you would pay for ALM is $10.15. My PC price is $7.85. Case price is $7.42/qt. 1/4 the price would be $1.86/qt. I think those days are past. Filter is $10.65, PC. Shipping about $8.

Sweet spot? Hard to say, varies by car. I would say a Kia in Texas could step out to 15K mile OCI, even if short tripping.

You don't pay tax on goods bought locally?
 
I think im going to give 0w-20 oe a shot in my compass this winter. Manual says 8,000 OCI, we'll see.
 
I just saw & read this entire thread.

Pablo, you take too much grief. Hope you can cast it away well.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I could also use X% of Yubase 4 or 5, Y% of Yubase 8, and Z% of PAO 300 (where Y>X, Y>>Z) and with the proper additive package (without any VII's) have the following specs:
Kinematic viscosity of 8.8 and 43,
CCS viscosity of VI of .= 170
HTHS >= 2.8
PP of -66F
FP of 440F
The major components assisting fuel economy are the friction modifier(s) and secondly, the viscosity.

Two of the most fuel efficient oils on the market today are the Idemitsu and Toyota 0W-20s with there very high organic moly levels and 200+ VIs.
Nippon oil's premium house brand, Sustina, have released a new 0W-20 that has a 229 VI. They are claiming a 2% fuel economy advantage due to the high VI alone since in most applications a high percentage of engine running time is spent with oil temp's well below the optimum minimum viscosity.
The following video, making their case is rather cool:

http://www.sustina.us/product-line.php
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I could also use X% of Yubase 4 or 5, Y% of Yubase 8, and Z% of PAO 300 (where Y>X, Y>>Z) and with the proper additive package (without any VII's) have the following specs:
Kinematic viscosity of 8.8 and 43,
CCS viscosity of VI of .= 170
HTHS >= 2.8
PP of -66F
FP of 440F
The major components assisting fuel economy are the friction modifier(s) and secondly, the viscosity.

Two of the most fuel efficient oils on the market today are the Idemitsu and Toyota 0W-20s with there very high organic moly levels and 200+ VIs.
Nippon oil's premium house brand, Sustina, have released a new 0W-20 that has a 229 VI. They are claiming a 2% fuel economy advantage due to the high VI alone since in most applications a high percentage of engine running time is spent with oil temp's well below the optimum minimum viscosity.
The following video, making their case is rather cool:

http://www.sustina.us/product-line.php


The video in that link should be a sticky all it's own.

Best I have seen detailing the technical aspects of motor oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Johnny
Suggest you do the same. Last time I talked with Amsoil they told me the XL line was made with Group III base stocks.

Truth.
Is the Group III base stocks Amsoil oil equal to the Amsoil PAO base stock oil, in oil life, fuel economy and engine protection?
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Quote:
0W-20 oil with a viscosity that auto manufacturers that require that grade specify.
OK, well post the specifications when you get them.

I have to think such oils are fairly loaded with VII's. Not my idea of a stout oil, but there is certainly more than one way to formulate an XW-20. Amsoil has chosen a path that works.
Friends, we need more details on these VII's before lashing out the verdict on either of the 2 routes!
 
Originally Posted By: fpracha
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Johnny
Suggest you do the same. Last time I talked with Amsoil they told me the XL line was made with Group III base stocks.

Truth.
Is the Group III base stocks Amsoil oil equal to the Amsoil PAO base stock oil, in oil life, fuel economy and engine protection?


Oil life - no the Amsoil's group IV and V oils are designed for a longer use life.
Fuel economy - no distinguishable difference.
Engine protection - no distinguishable difference, depending on application when comparing the PCMO's.
 
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