NERC Assessment Identifies Largest Threat To Grid: Energy Policy

[MVAR]

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/nerc-assessment-new-risk-grid-reliability-energy-policy/691590/

NERC concludes with stressing better communication & education between policy makers, regulators, owners & operators. Policy makers need more education on the BES (Bulk Electric System) before they make these outlandish requirements.

 

[Tyson]

Megavar,

You must be on nightshift on a reliability desk?

NERC got ahold of some truth on that one!

The over-penetration of renewables is pushing grid reliability over the edge.

Unicorns and rainbows will save us.

 

[MVAR]

Megavar,

You must be on nightshift on a reliability desk?

NERC got ahold of some truth on that one!

The over-penetration of renewables is pushing grid reliability over the edge.

Unicorns and rainbows will save us.

Yep. OT coverage tonight & tomorrow. Already worked Sunday through Wednesday on days so it's a 72hr week this week. Next month I'll only have one day off from the 7th through the 21st. Will be nice once we bring on another senior dispatcher/supervisor (think interviews are next week).

You're correct about the over penetration of renewables. The CAISO duck curve is getting pretty steep going into the evening ramp.

 

[Tyson]

Folsom is lovely at night.

You're doing good work. Freq indicates 59.984 here on the other side of the Western Interconnection (0136pdt).

After 27 years of the business, I can't believe we've painted ourselves into this corner.

I fear it will take repeated large scale outages to shed light on the issue and the corrections needed.

Best of luck, keep crossing ACE!

 

[MVAR]

Folsom is lovely at night.

You're doing good work. Freq indicates 59.984 here on the other side of the Western Interconnection (0136pdt).

After 27 years of the business, I can't believe we've painted ourselves into this corner.

I fear it will take repeated large scale outages to shed light on the issue and the corrections needed.

Best of luck, keep crossing ACE!

I'm at another control center, not CAISO. My Hz ranges between 59.939 in the south to 60.021 in the north as measured at the bus of a couple different stations.

You happen to be in Loveland?

 

[Tyson]

I'm at another control center, not CAISO. My Hz ranges between 59.939 in the south to 60.021 in the north as measured at the bus of a couple different stations.

You happen to be in Loveland?

I'm on the merchant side, located in Montrose, CO.

CRSPM1 and LAPM1

 

[MVAR]

I'm on the merchant side, located in Montrose, CO.

CRSPM1 and LAPM1

I oversee & participate in market operations as well. Government agency so we aren't bound by the same rules but also aren't allowed to "drive the market".

 

[SC Maintenance]

Were trying to decarbonize at the same time were trying to electrify auto travel - California especially.

Anyone that has spent one minute in engineering realizes that trying to tackle two problems at one time is exponentially harder than a single objective.

Not to mention they have poured billions into creating the problem but hardly a trickle of dollars to solve it.

 

[MVAR]

Were trying to decarbonize at the same time were trying to electrify auto travel - California especially.

Anyone that has spent one minute in engineering realizes that trying to tackle two problems at one time is exponentially harder than a single objective.

Not to mention they have poured billions into creating a problem that didn't exist.

Fixed it for you

 

[Pablo]

Were trying to decarbonize at the same time were trying to electrify auto travel - California especially.

Anyone that has spent one minute in engineering realizes that trying to tackle two problems at one time is exponentially harder than a single objective.

Not to mention they have poured billions into creating the problem but hardly a trickle of dollars to solve it.

Especially when the fans are of the no compromise variety.

 

[mk378]

Capitalism doesn't overbuild anything, there is no profit there. It's even worse as when shortages do occur, there is a desirable price spike.

A supply chain for anything will be built out to just meet the demand, but only after that demand exists.

 

[MVAR]

Capitalism doesn't overbuild anything, there is no profit there. It's even worse as when shortages do occur, there is a desirable price spike.

A supply chain for anything will be built out to just meet the demand, but only after that demand exists.

This isn't a capitalism issue. It's an issue created by policymakers (lawmakers) pandering to the "green" climate change cult and destroying grid reliability (while increasing costs). I could really go on about this but shift change is about to start.

 

[KrisZ]

Can’t blame capitalism for the electric grid and generation mess.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

This isn't a capitalism issue. It's an issue created by policymakers (lawmakers) pandering to the "green" climate change cult and destroying grid reliability (while increasing costs). I could really go on about this but shift change is about to start.

All it means is that storage hasn't lived up to the hype.....yet.

Yep. OT coverage tonight & tomorrow. Already worked Sunday through Wednesday on days so it's a 72hr week this week. Next month I'll only have one day off from the 7th through the 21st. Will be nice once we bring on another senior dispatcher/supervisor (think interviews are next week).

You're correct about the over penetration of renewables. The CAISO duck curve is getting pretty steep going into the evening ramp.

View attachment 174824

I'm curious. With excess capacity why isn't it being sent to the east coast and vice versa?

 

[MVAR]

All it means is that storage hasn't lived up to the hype.....yet.

I'm curious. With excess capacity why isn't it being sent to the east coast and vice versa?

There are 3 interconnections, Eastern, Western & ERCOT. They are not connected via AC transmission.

Also, VAR doesn’t travel well & needs to be supplied close to the load.

I’ll be able to expand this evening. Filling up my truck now & going to head home & go to sleep.

 

[Blueshound]

Let's just go back to adding tetraethyl lead to gasoline and call it a day. Clearly reducing lead exposure has not increased the intelligence of the average person. /S/

 

[vpr5703]

Caveat - I'm not involved in any way with the grid or power generation. Just someone who likes infrastructure. LOL

The push for all-renewable power generation has put us in a bind when combined with the downfall of the nuclear industry thanks to a few accidents that honestly (save for Chernobyl) weren't even all that bad. And yea we def need to start downsizing our reliance on coal and natural gas. But we *cannot* do this by switching to wind, hydro, and the various forms of solar power. They are better as peak load sources rather than baseload.

The push for renewables leaves out one major part of the grid that is absolutely required for stability - Those huge rotating masses of metal in power plants. The generators help stabilize the frequency of the power grid because it takes quite a bit of energy to slow them down. Solar and wind cannot do this on a mass scale. Hydro can, but only while the turbines have enough head to push the generators hard enough. Which is never guaranteed. Just look at the state of the hydro systems in California up until the last year or so. Capacity being reduced because they didn't have enough water to push the generators.

We will always need some sort of base load plants that can spin huge generators for power. And for now, nuclear is the best option IMO.

 

[Cujet]

I am intelligent enough to recognize a problem, not intelligent enough to offer a viable solution. I'd suggest nuclear power, but people that are smarter than me, know that solar and wind are much better.

Here in FL, FPL has taken steps to make the local powerlines more robust for hurricanes. Amazingly, we now have regular daily brown-outs. Often one leg only. Despite thinking the two are not related, they are. As the powerlines are now so high, the tops of the pine trees interfere with them. Whereas before, the pine tree tops were above the lines.

 

[IndyIan]

I guess now that sunny places can oversupply the grid during sunny periods with solar, the next step is to get some kind of storage system worked out. Nuclear isn't really a good solution alone, as it can't be ramped for daily peaks effectively, it is best for baseload power, but solar has eliminated the need for baseload during midday. Now nuclear can be used for storage systems to handle the peaks and store the baseload during the middays.
I wonder what a $2-3-4B pumped storage system would look like? Maybe do half the state?

 

[SHOZ]

Don't worry the government is working on dimming the sun.....