Need Welding Advice.

[George7941]

I have owned a 225 amp AC stick welder (very similar to the Lincoln tombstone welder) for the last twenty years but have not done much welding during the twenty years and so have not had much practice. My beads are not very good at all. My electrodes are also twenty years old and they have been stored indoors in a plastic bag. Should I buy new electrodes?

I have to replace a steel diamond plate floor on a truck hydraulic lift gate. This plate is about 8 ft by 2 1/2 ft and is 1/8 in thick and is welded on to a structural steel frame. I am going to replace this floor with either 1/8 in or 3/16 in thick diamond plate. My experience with my stick welder is that it tends to burn through when welding thin plates. Is that just my inexperience and the stick welder is fine for my task or do I need to invest in a Mig welder.?

A multi process MIg/Tig/Arc welder http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/pro-point-145-multi-process-mig-arc-tig-welder/A-p8619470e

Hobart Handler 140 http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/hobart-handler-140-gas-and-gasless-mig-welder/A-p8666265e

Lincoln EasyMig 180 http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/lincoln-electric-easy-mig-180-wire-feed-welder/A-p8193740e


Alternatively, would I be better off looking for a used welder?

 

[krismoriah72]

Since you havent welded in the past 20 years and you say that your welding isnt very good...why dont you just hire out the job?

Why buy a $500 chainsaw to cut down 1 tree when someone will cut it down and remove it for $250?

PS. Sell the old welder to offset the cost.

 

[old1]

I know that the mig/tig welders are great, but I personally don't know anything about them or how to use them. I was trained on oxy/ acetylene and arc stick welders. Practice is what it takes to make nice welds with any type of equip. I would think that 1/8 to 3/16 inch mild steel would be no problem for your welder. Just need to turn down the amperage to probably around 100/110 maybe. Somewhat depends on the rod you are using.

 

[tig1]

If you plate thickness is 1/8 then I would use 3/32 6011 rods. If 3/16 then go with 1/8 6011. Your Lincoln "buzz box" should work well, but practice first on some scrap of similar thickness.

 

[Donald]

If your looking to get back into welding then a Lincoln 180 MIG. Don't get a combo. But if you just want it welded, then hire someone. If you bring it to them they will not charge that much.

Your rods are probably not all that good. Most with stick welders will use DC if the weldet has it.

 

[Ihatetochangeoil]

First, throw your rods away and go buy some fresh electrodes; NOT from a hardware store. Go to a weld supply; and don't be afraid of the counter guys. No one but an idiot talks down to a customer. Ask for help, and you will most likely learn. You need either 3/32 or 1/8" E7018, which is a low-hydrogen electrode. Your machine is probably fine for the task. But welding rods are not allowed by Code to be used after being outside their sealed container or a proper storage oven for longer than 8 hours. The third digit in the electrode designation is position. If the digit is "1", then it is an all position rod, if the third digit is "2", the rod is FLAT ONLY. DO NOT buy 7024 or 7028 unless all your welding will be in the flat position.

AWS D1.1 Structural Welding Code 5.3.2.1 Low-Hydrogen Electrode Storage Conditions: All electrodes having low-hydrogen coverings conforming to AWS A5.1 and AWS A5.5 shall be purchased in hermetically sealed containers or shall be baked by the user in conformance with 5.3.2.4 prior to use. Immediately after opening the hermetically sealed container, electrodes shall be stored in ovens held at a temperature of at least 250°F [120°C]. Electrodes shall be rebaked no more than once. Electrodes that have been wet shall not be used.

Prepare your material properly. Clean weld metal can only be applied to clean surfaces. Use a grinder/rough sanding disc to remove ALL paint, rust, dirt, grease, etc., from surfaces to be welded. As far as amperage is concerned, start on some scrap material (Clean) with ~90 amps for 3/32 rod. Turn your machine down until you can't hold an arc burning, then go UP from there. A good clean arc should sound as a steady popping, like bacon frying. It doesn't sound like you need continuous welds, maybe 1-1 1/2" per foot, or 1" on 6" centers, whatever you feel comfy with.

I am an old boilermaker welder and an AWS Certified Welding Inspector; feel free to pm me with any questions. Maybe I can give you a warm fuzzy enough to get thru this if you like.

Good Luck!

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: Ihatetochangeoil


Good Luck!


While all that you said is true I've found 7018 to not be a very forgiving rod. Harder to use.. and not that great on "used" materials. Works alot better on brand new clean metal.

Given that the op is not a very good welder wouldn't something like 6011 which is much easier to weld with in my opinion and works better on "dirty" applications perhaps get a better result?

And of course some practice and maybe a youtube video or 2.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: Ihatetochangeoil


Good Luck!


While all that you said is true I've found 7018 to not be a very forgiving rod. Harder to use.. and not that great on "used" materials. Works alot better on brand new clean metal.

Given that the op is not a very good welder wouldn't something like 6011 which is much easier to weld with in my opinion and works better on "dirty" applications perhaps get a better result?

And of course some practice and maybe a youtube video or 2.


+1 that 7018 is not needed.

 

[Ihatetochangeoil]

^^ The 6011 filler is designed to be used with a "whipping" motion; leaving and returning to the weld puddle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gICDVeh7jJE If you actually watch this fellow, he does a lot more than just "whip" that rod; he weaves and varies his angle of attack and moves the rod side to side to keep the puddle centered on the joint. Yes, you can burn thru a lot of "garbage" with the 6010 or 6011, but what is NOT shown is that these filler metals are so deeply penetrating that an inexperienced welder can easily end up with a bunch of burn holes and no weld, especially on thinner materials.

It is my opinion that E7018 is easier for a beginning welder to obtain good results, since it can simply be "dragged" across the surface, proper rod angle is about 75 degrees toward the direction of travel and bisecting the angle of the joint. I have seen many teen aged welding students lay a decent 7018 bead in the flat position within an hour of first "lighting up." Of course, I started them out with the machine set nicely, but that's not anything that can't be picked up in short order.

What the young man in the first video I posted does NOT explain is that 6010/6011 electrodes are WEAKER and softer than 7018. 70XX is used "standard" in the construction of new buildings and many bridges, and probably original filler metal on anything structural which has been purchased, such as the item being repaired. http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/US/EN/literature/C150.pdf Ultimately, either filler metal will suit what I think the OP intends to do and it is up to him. I will repeat, it is my OPINION that E7018 would be easier to use. 6010/6011 will suit the purpose. Not trying to be disagreeable, attempting to be informative. To the OP, do what you wish.

And yes, there are plenty of instructional youtube videos.

 

[tom slick]

Do you guys use 7018 with AC? I've only used it DC EN.

 

[Stelth]

Originally Posted By: tom slick
Do you guys use 7018 with AC? I've only used it DC EN.


You can get 7018 AC. However, what about 7014 for the OP's situation?

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: Ihatetochangeoil


Good Luck!


While all that you said is true I've found 7018 to not be a very forgiving rod. Harder to use.. and not that great on "used" materials. Works alot better on brand new clean metal.

Given that the op is not a very good welder wouldn't something like 6011 which is much easier to weld with in my opinion and works better on "dirty" applications perhaps get a better result?

And of course some practice and maybe a youtube video or 2.


+1 that 7018 is not needed.
This. Tig is the master!

 

[ironman_gq]

For 1/8" I'd go with 7014 or even 6013. Penetration isn't going to be an issue, you just need a rod that'll burn nice and work well with an AC welder. 7014 will leave a prettier bead and is very easy to use, just strike it, lean it over at 15-20 degrees and drag it, let the flux on the corner of the rod drag on the metal ahead of the bead. Slag will be thick but if your heat is close it'll peel off very easy.

6013 is also an easy rod to run, doesn't penetrate all that well but you don't need it to on 1/8 for a flat bed. It also happens to be about the most common hobby rod out there and available anywhere.

I'd avoid 7018, even the AC version for what your doing. You don't need a low hydrogen rod and there are special storage requirments to keep the flux from absorbing moisture from the air which defeats the low hydrogen aspect and makes them burn like garbage.

 

[George7941]

Thanks for all the input, much appreciated.

The storage requirements for the low hydrogen electrodes are so stringent that it does not seem practical to use for the hobby welder. I think I will avoid using them.

I am going to practice a lot before I weld the tailgate, I want to make sure that I can lay down a proper bead. I have some spare time, now that it is the dead of winter. My first project is to build a small welding table out of angle iron.

Here is my welder. Its specs are very similar to the Lincoln 225 amp AC welder.

 

[Donald]

I recently took a course at adult education
and we were all using MIG welders to do various welds then use a press to rip the pieces of steel apart so we could see how well a job we had done. Some welds that looked good were pretty poor when pulled apart.

 

[George7941]

I hear you. In my case, welding a floor on to the top of a steel frame isn't very demanding strength wise. As long as I get half decent penetration the job should turn out just fine and I will be happy.

 

[tom slick]

I agree with using 6013. It's easy and is more than strong enough for your application.

 

[jhellwig]

7018 isn't needed for this and only recently have the came up with AC version of 7018 plus they need to be kept in an oven. If you clean the rust off the area to be welded and you are relatively flat go with 6013. I think 6011 is supposed to be used with DC but I might be thinking about 6010.

 

[Donald]

So lots of suggestions for welding rods. If however he had a MIG welder would that be the best welder to use?

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Donald
So lots of suggestions for welding rods. If however he had a MIG welder would that be the best welder to use?


Not necessarily. 6011 stick rods would be the best rod for this work, however, if one had a MIG welder then it would be fine as well.