Need quick insight - 02 cavalier vs. 05 neon

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Crapaliers have the worst interior one could ever hope for in a car.

It's like the engineers asked the public what they don't like and put it in the car not to mention the substandard materials used.

The Neon for sure; newer, better, and not a Cavalier.

My Fiance's Accent is on par with a Cavalier except her interior is still together.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Thermo1223:
My Fiance's Accent is on par with a Cavalier except her interior is still together.

Perhaps a speech therapist is in her future, now that she has recuperated from the miracles of modern medicine.
 
Newer Neons CAN still have head gasket probs; the early ones almost always have 'em, which is where the rep comes from. My Mopar mechanic buds tell me it's in the gasket design, so can be remedied either way with the correct service part. Still, a head gasket job is not a minor repair.

Neither of these cars are worth writing home about or are particularly refined even at their best. It depends on what you want. If overall reliability, the Neon is probably a hair better. But the Cav is slighly more livable on the road.

Both will likely have their issues. But I'd take the newer Neon with less miles in your example. The problems should be deferred for a while longer.
 
I've driven in Charlotte Amalie, and you want the cheapest, stoutest car you can find. You will seldom get the opportunity to exploit speed and handling, and most driving will involve trying to stay alive.
I'd take the newer car.
 
You don't get burled walnut in a Cavalier, but the interior of my 02 is still like new except for a few thing the dogs have chewed. I hate the console mounted window switches where the dog can get its paw on th edriver express down. Come to think of it, does anybody want to trade electric windows for manuals?

Note, does better equiped include more useless gagets like power windows to go wrong and require difficult, expensive repairs?
 
If these were both 2002 0r 2005 vehicles, I'd choose the Cavalier just due to the (observed) durability of the ecotec....but 3 years of age can be a big difference concerning economy cars. In this case, I might be inclined to take the Neon, unless the Cavalier had the same or less mileage.
 
"Note, does better equiped include more useless gagets like power windows to go wrong and require difficult, expensive repairs?"

Poking around the Web, reading various offerings, some from very legitimate sites such as Motor Magazine and sites offering opinion and conjecture albeit some of that opining is from educated (book larnin' and/or real-life experience) folks whose opinion(s) are worthy of notice, I recall that electrical problems is either the first or one of the leading sources of problems in today's cars.

One of the nationally syndicated radio call-in auto repair shows (not Click n Clack... Ray sumpthin' with a shop in Jersey) declares that today's vehicles are far too complicated electronically with all the doo dads unrelated to propelling the vehicle down the road.

I agree.

Wanting long-term reliabilty I shunned vehicles with excess electronic goodies.

After deciding on a Chevy Silverado I narrowed the choice to their W/T (work truck) model. Manual windows, no switches within the wheel of steering, heck, it even lacked carpeting on the floor but that's okay!!!! Easier to clean vinyl than carpet.

Manual rear-view mirrors. No thermometer....I can stick my bloated head out the window to determine if it's too hot or too cold or just right.

So far, I am liver quiverin' tickled with the truck's functionality. Hoping it stays that way. By shunning all those extras I think I have improved the odds of problem-free driving.

One drawback is when resale time arrives. Appears that a fairly sizable percentage of the nation's sheep-like citizenry lust after vehicles with all the goodies. But, if one intends to drive a vehicle for many years then resale value is a mute issue. If a buyer is the type that owns the critter for 2, 3, 4 years or so then it MAY be better to get the doo dads so as to maximize resale..... though the make/model likely affects whether those unneeded extras pay for themselves (or more) at resale.
 
quote:

Originally posted by ITSMR2U:
I've driven in Charlotte Amalie, and you want the cheapest, stoutest car you can find. You will seldom get the opportunity to exploit speed and handling, and most driving will involve trying to stay alive.
I'd take the newer car.


They've been doing it for 30 years. Toyota has typically been the vehicle of choice, but theyve moved to ford pickups due to lower initial cost and better longevity... and after the fiancee's mother's 01 camry... Im not so sure what theyll go to next.

Rubber parts do degrade quickly - but in reality, they degrade so quickly that 4 years in the states makes little difference - either one will start to show degradation in a year of the sun down here.

Critical is the maintenance of the braking system, and then the maintenance of the transmission and engine. LOTS of cars down here have rust holes and bald tires. Surviving is a main driving skill, around the many steep, blind curves on severe terrain. But thats why the braking system is the msot important part.

However, or course, drivetrain longevity is important... you dont exhibit speed and handling, but on the severe grades and roads that are off of the tourists' beaten path, things can get really bad. IMO, the ecotec engine might give a bit more power when needed.

In the end all, it seems like it is a wash, other than age being of importance in mnay folks' opinions. However, based upon the stresses of the life of the cars that live down there, and the short usable life of the cars, I think that the money saved on the older car might be a bit better tradeoff - a little extra service can ensure that everything is up to snuff where it counts. But we shall see. Since it does not seam like there is much in terms of major mechanical faults with either vehicle... itll come down to the best deal.

Thanks for all the insight.

JMH
 
quote:

Originally posted by obbop:
"Note, does better equiped include more useless gagets like power windows to go wrong and require difficult, expensive repairs?"

Poking around the Web, reading various offerings, some from very legitimate sites such as Motor Magazine and sites offering opinion and conjecture albeit some of that opining is from educated (book larnin' and/or real-life experience) folks whose opinion(s) are worthy of notice, I recall that electrical problems is either the first or one of the leading sources of problems in today's cars.

One of the nationally syndicated radio call-in auto repair shows (not Click n Clack... Ray sumpthin' with a shop in Jersey) declares that today's vehicles are far too complicated electronically with all the doo dads unrelated to propelling the vehicle down the road.

I agree.

Wanting long-term reliabilty I shunned vehicles with excess electronic goodies.

After deciding on a Chevy Silverado I narrowed the choice to their W/T (work truck) model. Manual windows, no switches within the wheel of steering, heck, it even lacked carpeting on the floor but that's okay!!!! Easier to clean vinyl than carpet.

Manual rear-view mirrors. No thermometer....I can stick my bloated head out the window to determine if it's too hot or too cold or just right.

So far, I am liver quiverin' tickled with the truck's functionality. Hoping it stays that way. By shunning all those extras I think I have improved the odds of problem-free driving.

One drawback is when resale time arrives. Appears that a fairly sizable percentage of the nation's sheep-like citizenry lust after vehicles with all the goodies. But, if one intends to drive a vehicle for many years then resale value is a mute issue. If a buyer is the type that owns the critter for 2, 3, 4 years or so then it MAY be better to get the doo dads so as to maximize resale..... though the make/model likely affects whether those unneeded extras pay for themselves (or more) at resale.


Haden't realized anybody still built anything like that. Did you have to special order it?
 
"Haden't realized anybody still built anything like that. Did you have to special order it?"

Nope. The vehicle sat there, forlorn, family-less, whimpering, obviously wishing and hoping for an owner who would care for it, treat it tenderly.

Actively seeking the work truck (W/T) model. Visited several dealers. I would guess around 5 to 10-percent of the units on the lots were work truck versions. Makes sense. Some businesses (businessi?) need a pick-up for basic utilitarian duties and want to watch costs.

The W/T is listed on the Chevy order sheet (saw it on-line) as an option that takes $1,000 off the base (MSRP) price. By the way, I'm eating a dead chicken as I write this. Got it at Wal-Mart. $3.77, pre-cooked, spiced up quite nicely. Not a HUGE chicken but BIG enuff to satisfy a big-bellied bloke such as I.

Didn't have to special order though I suppose one can do that. The W/T I heard whimpering had everything I absolutely had to have: white in color, long bed, regular cab. Udder things were of lesser importance. I do want to relocate to a rural area and it may be the snowbelt so 4x4 was a toss-up. The forlorn W/T was a 4x4. It was also an auto transmission vice 5-speed. I prefer the 5-speed but there's good points with the auto. The truck was so excited to see me poking and peeking at it I could almost see its trailer hitch wagging with glee.

Oh... W/T models do have options but I am unsure of all that are available. The W/T giddy with glee at my presence had the Z82 suspension and trailering option along with the extra minor goodies that those options require, such as an oil cooler, heavy duty air cleaner, etc. Also had the G80 non-slip rear end.

Mmmmmmm...... just finished the chicken. Sure wish I had a Moon Pie for dessert. Do you know how hard it is to find a real Moon Pie in Omaha Nebraska? Not surprising since this IS a cultural backwater. Buncha' weirdos around here. That's why I hide in the shanty so much.

Oh, the W/T also came with the fancy rear bumper.

The factory must have had extra parts to get rid of since the bumper was tossed in with no extra charge though it was supposed to be a hundred buck option. I can imagine some dude perched in front of a computer the Ft. Wayne GM factory, punching buttons and selecting goodies to put on the truck. A CD player was added to the standard radio. Cruise control was added. Those things were also not in the extra-cost option list on the window sticker. In fact, they weren;t listed anywhere on the window sticker but appeared on the production sheet listing all the components. The assemblers have a copy they use to grabparts and slap 'em on.

Just for general reference; paid $20,200 for the critter. I bargained hard and used e-mail, telephone, personal visits and communicated with 6 different dealers. Could have gone with the dealer that was $600 lower but, for various reasons, went with the guy down the road. Some very minor warranty work done and am glad I went with the dealer I did. They treat me good. Of course, slipping the service writer a 5-spot and the mechanic a $20 helps to get folks on your side. Add a sincere thanks and appreciation for their skills can do a lot to get one's way in this world.

All-in-all, I believe I got a lot of vehicle for the money. I see folks in their itty bitty economy cars who paid nearly as much as I did for a rugged truck that could easily outlast those flimsy econoboxes by 10 or 20 years!!!!

Then I see the optioned-out loaded x-tra cab with every gizmo under the sun and chortle to myself knowing they paid 10-grand or more than I did. Hey, I'm po' flesh tone trash, I can't afford the BIG boys toys.

Me and my W/T are happy. Haven't heard a complaint from the truck.
 
IMO a bribe to not screw you on service is not something I even think of doing on a regular basis. Why can't people just be honest in their work?

Why is bribery a necessity to produce decent work.

I see this all the time in the service industry.

O and Tosh thats rich
lol.gif
 
I love the idea of a Chevy W/T. With my nearly $3000 in GM Card earnings, I could get one for... cheap! The only problem I have is that every one I find is white........
 
quote:

Originally posted by crw:
I love the idea of a Chevy W/T. With my nearly $3000 in GM Card earnings, I could get one for... cheap! The only problem I have is that every one I find is white........

I agree, my FIL did the same thing with his Tacoma.

Told them I just need 4x4 and a stick and he got that. Not even a tach, no variable wipers, h-ell not even a low gas light. Only thing he wanted was A/C.

He was looking at a more expensive V6/Auto model but he might have not liked the timing belt changes.
 
obbop,

What engine and what kind of mileage are you getting with your W/T? If anyone has ideas, I'm wondering what real-world mileage one could get with a 2WD W/T and the 4.3L V6 combo (light)?
 
The pick-em-up IS a heavy critter. So far, I see around 15-16 mpg in town with all the stoplights, stop signs, and blithering idiots I am stuck behind who constantly vary their speed on the longer stretches.... as they yap on the cell phone or whatever and go from 45mph down to 30 then back to 45, over and over..... over time that adds up and decreses the average mpg.

Best on the freeway, so far, was 22 mpg on level ground, no wind, cruise control set, at a steady 60 mph.

At times I wish I had a Corolla or other econobox but I make allowances for relatively lower mpg by driving less.

Avoiding driving traits that reduce mpg is constantly done but I shun the crawling away from a stop and taking three or more city blocks to reach the speed limit routine I see more frequently nowadays.

Oh, the truck has the 4.8L / 294 cid engine. Not much difference in mileage between it and the 5.3L engine but I had no need for the extra HP and torque as well as the additional cost of the bigger engine.

A non-4x4 would assuredly get better mpg due to the reduced weight and less resistance internally due to fewer moving parts...... I'm no 4x4 expert.. if 4x4 is not engaged perhaps the component resistance is the same as a 4x2 but if those front axles and differential are moving even when in 2-wheel drive seems there would be increased resistance and slightly less mpg.

Also, the 4x4 sits a little higher than a 4x2. Seems that would increase wind resistance, reducing mpg.

http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forums/

Did a search at the above site; lots of info there and at udder Chevy truck boards.

"89 regular cab short bed 4.3/5SPD 3.08's and 255/70/15 tires 21-22 highway"

"I get 18 city. 2002 reg cab 4.3/5-speed 3:42 rear end ratio"

"...mixed driving. (50/50) highway/city, 21-22mpg"

"Hmmm 4.8 is about a $600 option, with the 5 speed the city mileage is the same and hwy the 4.3 gets 1 mpg better."

Various complaints about a lack of power with the 4.3 while others state the power is enough for them. As gas prices rise the relatively small difference between the 4.3 and 4.8/5.3 will result in an ever-increasing savings in fuel costs.

Also, if gas prices keep rising, I believe the 4.3 MAY have a higher resale value.

Auto transmissions have improved in their mpg over the years but, in most, but not all instances, I believe the manual transmission does offer at least slightly better mpg.

Udder places to find info/opinions:

www.chevytalk.org

http://forums.pickuptruck.com/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB11

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1090

Plenty of info/opinions to be found on those message boards. Remember that a certain percentage of posts are from "gear heads" who have enough money to apparently afford gas at any price. When reading those posts, remember, YMMV in more ways than one!!!!!

Addendum: Part of my inner essence still shrilly screams that I shoulda' grabbed an econobox and reveled in the 30-45 mpg those little critters are capable of. But, fear of an uncertain economic future partially compelled the decision to grab a long-bed truck and the topper/camper shell (names for that add-on vary regionally) so that no matter what happens, even if I can no longer afford rent, I would have a place to sleep that keeps the rain/snow off the head and cuts the wind so as to allow at least a basic existence. Sure beats a cardboard box under the overpass!!!! Hopefully, the economic worst-case-scenario never occurs but if it does I'll have a place to call home.
 
2002 was the first year for Ecotec in the Cavalier

and Sunfires...

On the J Body Organization maintenance thread

there were several reports of timing chains

breaking (just for year 2002s)....

There is a "fix" involving some kind of

modification of the chain oiling nozzle...

Whatever that is, and it was covered by a

factory service bulletin but no recalls

if I remember those reports of 3 or 4 years

ago...

This is an interference engine...

Lots of damage if those chains break...

I'd be leery of that particular year model...
 
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