Need info on used BMW 3 series

[d00df00d]

Pretty sure that's just something the chauvinists say to make themselves feel better. It's no different from when non-owners say that all BMW drivers are chauvinists (or worse)...

That said, there are a lot of BMW owners who buy mostly for the badge, and it does seem to be the case that virtually all of those opt for the automatic.

This is probably a case of basic logic failure: "all badgemongers buy autos; therefore, autos are for badgemongers." Tempting conclusion, but unsound reasoning.

Either way, I do think it's pretty straightforward that an automatic transmission makes a BMW less worth having over, say, a Mercedes. It doesn't completely defeat the point; it just undermines it. Presumably, if you want a BMW over a Mercedes for reasons other than image, it's because you value involvement and dynamics. Why give up the part of the car that is most efficient at delivering half of that equation (involvement)?

 

[97tbird]

Agreed mostly.
- That said, I doubt that a 335is/E9x M3/current M4/M5 etc, are without the feeling of involvement just because they have an auto transmission. Transmission is only one part of the feeling of overall engagement / fun factor. Steering, and cornering, braking, etc are also important factors.
I still find my BMW more engaging and fun compared to OTHER auto equipped cars I have driven. (and some manuals too, for sure).

(And like I said, the question WHY an auto can be answered with a lot of different situations: driving situations, what the car is used for and family situations where other members can't drive manuals etc etc. Still doesn't mean one gives up all the fun/engagement...)

 

[MCompact]

I'll just say that stick or auto, the F30 3ers are terminally uninvolving to drive; my son's X3 has more communicative steering. And while I much prefer RWD cars and have owned BMWs since 1983, I find my lightly modded MS3 to be a much more entertaining drive than any F1x or F3x I have encountered to date.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
I'll just say that stick or auto, the F30 3ers are terminally uninvolving to drive;

Hmm... not sure about the sedan, but we test drove the GT version (328i), and I thought it was pretty entertaining. Steering was very communicative. Not sure if the GT version is tuned differently...

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: 97tbird
Agreed mostly.
- That said, I doubt that a 335is/E9x M3/current M4/M5 etc, are without the feeling of involvement just because they have an auto transmission. Transmission is only one part of the feeling of overall engagement / fun factor. Steering, and cornering, braking, etc are also important factors.
I still find my BMW more engaging and fun compared to OTHER auto equipped cars I have driven. (and some manuals too, for sure).

(And like I said, the question WHY an auto can be answered with a lot of different situations: driving situations, what the car is used for and family situations where other members can't drive manuals etc etc. Still doesn't mean one gives up all the fun/engagement...)

Well yeah. It's not all-or-nothing. And modern BMWs definitely owe their declining level of driver involvement to a LOT more than the transmission.

Again, I'm not saying a manual transmission is the only way to get involvement. It's just the most efficient way. An automatic car has to be a LOT better than a manual car to be equally (let alone more) involving. As in, you'd have to be comparing an F80 M3 DCT to an Accord 6MT or something.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
The 428 coupe is blah, maybe with the I6 and some mods and a stick it would be OK.

Now an 80's vintage 6 series or even a 90's 8 would be a far more interesting car.


Okay???

The new M4 with the dual clutch 7 speed auto should be all you need although a stick is available.

Its 425 HP hooked to that fully adjustable drive profile (Std. or M1 or M2) and 12 second quarter miles can only be beat by adding 135 more HP with a M6.

A 1980's 6 series would feel like a Chevy Lumina in comparison to these modern adrenaline machines.





A few of my friends have 335's, 135's, M3's etc with lots of mods putting out 400-450+ HP, those are decent cars really, fast. But with the 4 banger its just meh, slow, I don't get the point of spending a few bucks on a good driving car than saddling it with a 4 banger, spend a few more and get the bigger motor!


A 1987 M6 will do something a 2014 428I will never do, in 2020 the M6 will be worth more. LOL.

Not my kind of cars, I prefer large LWB luxury sedans. I'm not going to be "blasting" in race mode on I95 home of the radar gun, but I can see the attraction of a fast small sedan.

 

[d00df00d]

My only complaint about the F30 328i's powertrain is the throttle lag from the turbo. Almost everything that's wrong with it IMO is in the chassis.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
and are better to be seen in. It's nice to be arriving somewhere in a BMW!

That's a sad testament to someone with serious self image issues.


Maybe they just like driving a nice car.

I drive our Jaguars occasionally, not because I think I have image issues, but because they're just really nice cars to drive.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
geeman,

For that much money you can buy a new Accord / Camry.

Funny -- this exact idea is what makes me and most of my friends laugh at the idea of buying a brand new Accord/Camry. I.e., why buy something that utterly boring to drive when you could have something like a NICE used E46 for the same price?


Yep, not a BMW person, but totally agree with this sentiment.

Oatmeal has its virtues, but it's a lousy day in, day out, diet.

Live - it's what life is for.

 

[surfstar]

^ and I would counter with: your life must be pretty dull if you have to drive an "exciting" car to get enjoyment

My cheap, reliable cars allow me to have $ to travel and have excitement when I'm not commuting to work.
Priorities. You have yours, I have mine.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: surfstar
My cheap, reliable cars allow me to have $ to travel and have excitement when I'm not commuting to work.

Why does it have to be either/or? If you have the money, you can do both - enjoy travel and enjoy your commute.

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted By: BowNisPar
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
$18,000 will get you a 2014 Corolla .

Never has $18,000 seemed so unappealing...

I suppose I agree with this one... lots of very nice certified pre-owned vehicles at 18k that would be much nicer, however you define nice.


But what happens when that $18,000 used Audi, BMW or Mercedes breaks down and needs $$$ repairs.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Originally Posted By: BowNisPar
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
$18,000 will get you a 2014 Corolla .

Never has $18,000 seemed so unappealing...

I suppose I agree with this one... lots of very nice certified pre-owned vehicles at 18k that would be much nicer, however you define nice.


But what happens when that $18,000 used Audi, BMW or Mercedes breaks down and needs $$$ repairs.




Fix it?

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: surfstar
^ and I would counter with: your life must be pretty dull if you have to drive an "exciting" car to get enjoyment

My cheap, reliable cars allow me to have $ to travel and have excitement when I'm not commuting to work.
Priorities. You have yours, I have mine.

Some people probably do lead dull lives, and an "exciting" car jazzes up an otherwise dull existence for them.

I would also suggest that some people lead anything but dull lives, and a nice car is a welcome diversion, even if you have to wrench on it some, from all the other responsibilities they bear.

likewise!

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: surfstar
My cheap, reliable cars allow me to have $ to travel and have excitement when I'm not commuting to work.

Why does it have to be either/or? If you have the money, you can do both - enjoy travel and enjoy your commute.


Great point. I like variety, and since I spend most of my day in a truck for work I want something that gives me a little thrill as I walk up to it!

Most folks who ridicule cars are not car people. They want an appliance, no emotion involved. Seems like a hollow existence to a guy who grew up with hot cars in the driveway!

No reason not to have your cake and eat it too...

 

[Bladecutter]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Great point. I like variety, and since I spend most of my day in a truck for work I want something that gives me a little thrill as I walk up to it!

Most folks who ridicule cars are not car people. They want an appliance, no emotion involved. Seems like a hollow existence to a guy who grew up with hot cars in the driveway!

No reason not to have your cake and eat it too...


I agree with you 100%.

My wife and I love having nice cars and nice bikes in the garage.
We use them for going back and forth to work, going to the track a couple weekends every year, going on a cross country drive to visit places like the Grand Canyon, family in NYC or Canada, and just for blasting around the mountain roads here in Colorado on any random weekend.

Why in the world would we want to do any of those things in vehicles that bore us to death, and cost next to nothing?

Not everyone in life cares about having huge bank accounts, and living forever with a big pile of cash hidden under the mattress. Part of having a complete life is enjoying every moment as it comes.

BC.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

Great point. I like variety, and since I spend most of my day in a truck for work I want something that gives me a little thrill as I walk up to it!

Most folks who ridicule cars are not car people. They want an appliance, no emotion involved. Seems like a hollow existence to a guy who grew up with hot cars in the driveway!

No reason not to have your cake and eat it too...


I agree 100%
When I was semi-retired I was required to drive upwards of 2,000 miles per month. Being able to take the MS3 or Club Sport made each trip infinitely more pleasant. Life is much too short to drive boring anodyne appliances...

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

Great point. I like variety, and since I spend most of my day in a truck for work I want something that gives me a little thrill as I walk up to it!

Most folks who ridicule cars are not car people. They want an appliance, no emotion involved. Seems like a hollow existence to a guy who grew up with hot cars in the driveway!

No reason not to have your cake and eat it too...


I agree 100%
When I was semi-retired I was required to drive upwards of 2,000 miles per month. Being able to take the MS3 or Club Sport made each trip infinitely more pleasant. Life is much too short to drive boring anodyne appliances...

At some point its all relative though. Why not drive a Viper coupe or AMG SLS everywhere? Do those car owners sneer at your "slow and boring" cars?
I'm sure there's some people who'll say life is too short not to have a 300hp/ton rwd car as a DD? Or ride a 1L sport bike in anger on a track, or go skydiving every weekend.
I guess what I'm saying, is that you don't know how much someone is enjoying driving anything. You can drive what you like, and so can they, leave it at that.

 

[supton]

My DD at the moment is 310hp and RWD. But it's a truck, does that count?

Oddly enough I drive my 140hp FWD harder and faster.

Hey, while we are on sterotypes, I must hate driving, since I own a Toyota. Not just one but two! Must be the worst thing I do every day, turn the key and go someplace. I can't possibly own it because I like it.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: supton
I can't possibly own it because I like it.

I think this is critical. We should all be driving what we like, regardless what it is.

Now, if someone is miserable on their long commute just so that they can save a few bucks, then I say it's a bit ill-thought-out. I mean, a long commute can make one miserable as it is, but the car itself can either make it better or worse.

Granted, money does not grow on trees, so most of us drive what we can afford and not always what we like. But most of the time there is a happy medium there somewhere.