Need idea on good grip, low cost, less used tire

[PandaBear]

215 60 16, anything above T would work. I'm looking for a set of tires for my dad's Taurus that is basically not driven more than maybe a couple thousand miles a year. The current tires are Kumho Solus HP4+ from Sears. It was good but seems to have hardened and wear low (still around 5/32 left) after 8 years. Due to this car having the worst fuel economy in our fleet this will be the last car driven, so I don't need new tires to have high UTQG, but would prefer something that has the following priorities:

1) Wet traction and all season, no LRR tire, because this is his long distance trip car and he will likely drive it somewhere with snow when he feel like (Reno, Tahoe, Yosemite, etc).

2) Cheap, because most likely we need to replace it on the first sign of hardening and no matter how good it is it will be replaced at around 8-10 years

So far I'm thinking of:

1) Walmart General Evertrek HP (V), it is $75 ea before tax (8.75%?) and free shipping, mounting would be $60 at Walmart. 40k miles warranty, unknown traction but I think it is likely 440 if it is as other said a clone to the Ultimax HP. Directional trend pattern but since this is likely in the trash long before worn out, not a big deal.

2) Tirerack Fuzion Touring (H) 420 traction and 40k warranty, $71 before shipping ($53 for 4) and no tax, mounting would likely be around $80 at Walmart or local tire joint. Non directional trend pattern but the groves looks kind of narrow and not sure if it will be good wet traction.

3) Falken Ziex 512 (H) 420 traction and 40k warrantyfrom Discount Tire Direct, $79 free shipping and no tax, mounting would also likely be around $80 at Walmart or local tire joint. Supposedly good rolling resistance, but I heard a lot of horror story from Hondatech about bubble and integrity issue many years ago.

4) Nexen 5000 (H) from Pepboys 420 traction and 60k warranty, around $69 after buy 3 get 1 free + mandatory road hazard warranty, $85 mounting so likely the same price as above. The only reason I'd consider this is their road hazard warranty included into the price, but with less than optimal tire brand IMO. However he doesn't live next to a Pepboys and would have to wait till he come visit me (about every 2 weeks) to use this road hazard if anything.



Any suggestion appreciated. Remember, this car is rarely driven and I would not pay $120 for Michelin that has 80k warranty (a waste), or $200 for some 140 UTQG low rolling resistance tire (bad traction and high cost).

 

[bourne]

http://www.treaddepot.com/tire/11125.html

 

[SubLGT]

Something from Kumho, Falken, or Nitto.

 

[GC4lunch]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
1) Wet traction and all season

Can't get "and"; that's an either/or. The hydrophilic chemistry that makes an all season adhere to snow makes water adhere to the tread in wet conditions.

 

[fdcg27]

The numbers you're quoting as "traction" are treadwear.
Tread wear numbers are not comparable across brands, whatever the intent of UTQG may have been.
From what you've written, tread life is of no importance anyway.
Having written this, I'd go for the Altimax clone among your choices.
Another good and inexpensive choice would be the Hankook 727.
This is a T rated tire, but it does have a cap ply like an H rated tire.
I've never had a set of these tires, but those who've used them in winter conditions report that they do pretty well.
Another good low cost possibility would be the Cooper CS4, and these are available with an H rating.

 

[LeakySeals]

I would not get #1, my experiences with directionals have been bad. Can't do a 4-wheel rotation, get ruff easily, no good in snow. I would instead look at Hankook Optimo H727. I know mention no T, but realistically its enough tire for your dad's conditions. He certainly doesn't need V. 100k warranty. Good all season tire. Around $96

Yeah the manufacturing specs and the websites may specify V, but its not a mandate.

fdcg27 ^^^ Nice post!

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: GC4lunch
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
1) Wet traction and all season

Can't get "and"; that's an either/or. The hydrophilic chemistry that makes an all season adhere to snow makes water adhere to the tread in wet conditions.


I understand that, and I'd pick the best wet traction among all season tires because this car will go up into the snow once in a blue moon, but primarily driven at sea level with at least 60F ambient temperature.

The reason I prefer higher speed and low UTQG rating is it is a correlation with grip. The OEM spec is only T rated, but I'd pick something grip better as a trade off over wear life and this seems to "correlate" with speed rating.

 

[eljefino]

Another vote for hankook 727s. Order online and have walmart mount 'em.

 

[PandaBear]

What about Dunlop SP 7000 A/S? After rebate they are about $73 before shipping. Would the "340 UTQG" and the category of "High Performance All Season" be a good indicator that it will grip better in the rain?

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Dunlop&tireModel=SP+Sport+7000+A%2FS&partnum=16HR67000&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&autoMake=Ford&autoYear=2001&autoModel=Taurus%20SEL%20Sedan&autoModClar=

 

[JHZR2]

I used to have Falkens and they wore well. I'd have a look at cooper tires.

 

[jorton]

I don't know if you want to go as cheap as I did. I bought 2 15" for $130 with mounting, balancing, labor and tax included. Call around to independant tire shops and ask for Republic Invader Sport. H speed rating, plies tread 5, sidewall 1. 4 rib, 3 groove.

Lifetime free balancing and tire repair also included.

(tread: polyester 2 steel 2 nylon 1)

 

[GC4lunch]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Would the "340 UTQG" and the category of "High Performance All Season" be a good indicator that it will grip better in the rain?

Not really; let me explain.

The UTQG assigns three distinct grades to a tire: Treadwear, Traction, and Temperature. As discussed in another thread on this board, the Temperature grade is a parallel to the European ECE-30 letter Speed Ratings, and measures a tire's ability to dissipate and to survive the heat generated by internal friction when the tire is rotated under load at high speeds. It does not measure grip or handling characteristics.

The Treadwear grade -- in your example, 340 -- is a relative wear indicator, and, as you correctly perceive, it is strongly influenced by the hardness or softness of the tread compound at the specified test temperature (which may differ from the temperatures that the typical tire sees in the actual application on your car). As a broad general rule, a softer tread compound will exhibit more grip than a harder tread compound, and so there is a rough inverse correlation between the Treadwear number and the tire's "stickiness" on the road: the lower the number, generally, the better the tire will adhere to the road under hard cornering and severe braking. Racing tires often would have Treadwear ratings under 100.

The third rating, Traction, is at the same time the most important and the trickiest to rely upon. The "Traction" rating is specifically a rating of wet braking efficiency, perhaps the most important criterion of a tire's safety. But here is the rub (literally): the NHTSA mandated test procedure is obsolete and deceiving as applied to tires mounted on cars with antilock braking systems. Most modern cars have ABS, so the Traction rating is a chimera.

In the NHTSA test procedure, the tire under test is mounted on the wheels of a trailer and the trailer is pulled behind a vehicle over a wetted-down asphalt course at a fixed rate of speed. A chuck then is thrown into the trailer's axle, instantaneously locking the wheels that the tires are mounted on, and -- after one-half second's delay -- the decelerative force exerted by the drag is measured.

The problem is the difference between all season tires and other tires. What makes a tire an all season tire is the chemical composition of the tread compound which, in an all season tire, does not readily shed water as the tread compounds of other kinds of tires do, but rather "likes" water -- the compound is called "hydrophilic," which derives from Greek roots meaning "likes water" -- and thus can get some grip on snow (which at the micro level of tire to snow contact under pressure, is near-freezing water). But in rainy conditions, an all season tire's hydrophilic tread compound retains a film of water on the tread.

In the NHTSA Traction test procedure, when the chuck is thrown into the axle and the wheel is locked, the contact patch where the tire meets the road, also, is locked, and that small patch is dragged across the pavement, quickly scuffing off (and, as heat develops from friction between the contact patch and the road, evaporating off) the film of water on the small portion of tread at the contact patch and allowing the tire to contact the pavement directly. Thus, using the obsolete but mandated NHTSA Traction testing procedure, even an all season tire can qualify for a fairly impressive Traction rating.

However, in the real world as opposed to the NHTSA mandated test, if the tires are mounted on an ABS-equipped car, the electronic system aggressively attempts to keep the wheel from locking, as locked wheels can lead to a loss of control. So the ABS repeatedly releases the wheel's brake, which allows a new portion of the tread, still with a film of water on it, to rotate to the contact patch. New water is continuously delivered via the wet tread to the contact area with the pavement for cars that are fitted with ABS and all season tires.

If you look at actual tire field test results of emergency wet braking, you will see, as you might expect, that all tires exhibit longer stopping distinces on wet pavement than they do on dry pavement. But the disparity between dry stopping distances and wet stopping distances generally are significantly greater for all season tires than they are for non all season tires. The water retained on the surface of the tread by the hydrophilic tread compound of all season tires is the cause for the difference.

 

[PandaBear]

GC4lunch,

I agree with you on all your points. However for practicality reason (this is the car dad drives if he ever go somewhere that will snow), it will need all season no matter how good summer tire is and how horrible in snow traction (at least it is all season) it will get. It is a compromise we have to make.

Since this car has ABS, and most cars have "A" in the obsolete wet traction rating. I think I have to go blind and just pick one that I "guess" can give me better water evacuation than the others.

General Customer Service told me that Evertrek HP is the same green tire core as their Altimax HP (mold and trend pattern being different). Using Hankook H727 and Altimax HP test result from Tirerack, it seems like H727 is significantly better in snow and ice brake distance but Altimax HP is the opposite:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=152&viewPage=y

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplayWinter.jsp?ttid=152

Given that it is $75 before tax ($26 + $6 state tire fee) and free shipping vs $97 before shipping ($53) and no tax. I "think" I'll go with General over Hankook H727.

 

[GC4lunch]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

Given that it is $75 before tax ($26 + $6 state tire fee) and free shipping vs $97 before shipping ($53) and no tax. I "think" I'll go with General over Hankook H727.

PandaBear, in common with all other states that impose a sales tax on their residents, California levies a use tax, in an amount equal to the amount of the sales tax, on purchases that its residents make out of state and bring into California. It is the taxpayer's obligation to remit the tax, if due, as the out-of-state retailer usually will not act as the state's collection agent as it does for in-state sales. Should one choose to purchase on-line from an out-of-state retailer, one may wish to be circumspect about whether to wave a red flag on a public forum that one expects to avoid paying tax on a three digit out-of-state purchase.

 

[PandaBear]

Uh, my bad, didn't realize about the use tax. I always assumed otherwise until you mentioned this.

 

[CharBaby]

Read the reviews on the tire rack for FORD's in general. The Hankook Opitmo H727 are the BOMB!

Older Taurus and the newer Ford 500/Taurus' owners rave about the winter traction.

The H727's are a good price too, NEW!

A few folks in our circle have the H727's on a variety of vehicles from Camry, CR-V and Mazda3...3 different vehicles/charactors and all 3 love'em.