need help with covering a cold air intake

[jalikaria24]

hey guys! my cold air intake in my truck is open so its not really a cold air intake. i was told to close it up so that it pulls cold air from the fender. here are some pics

i was thinking of using some aluminum/sheet metal from home depot, spray foam insulation, and jb weld
the spray foam insulation to cover any gaps, jb weld to secure the sheet metal, and sheet metal to cover the top

here is the spray foam insulation thing i bought: https://www.greatstuff.dupont.com/products/fireblock-foam-sealant.html

do u think i need something that can withstand higher temps or is this fine

is that the best way to go forward?

here is pics of my setup

 

[atikovi]

Those things don't do much other than collect dirt and dust restricting airflow. The factory setup often has a duct to outside air that is much better.

 

[Hall]

I think your plan might restrict the amount of air it gets which is worse than if it's getting "warm" air.

Don't most of these short air intakes get installed right where the factory air filter sits and gets the same air, via ducts, that the factory system gets ? I see a hole in front of your filter that is probably what fed the factory filter.

Someone should do a before and after of the intake air temperatures between a factory intake and a short ram intake. I suspect the temperatures differences aren't as great as many claim.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted by atikovi
Those things don't do much other than collect dirt and dust restricting airflow. The factory setup often has a duct to outside air that is much better.


iIt depends on the engine/platform. The Mazdaspeed branded AEM CAI I installed on my MS3 added 25 hp.

 

[GoldDot40]

@apollo18,

Does the hood not create/complete the "closure" when it's shut? That's the way most are designed that have the box like you have.

 

[OVERKILL]

Do you still have the stock intake plumbing and airbox that could be refitted to draw from inside the fender where it probably drew from initially?

 

[Dave9]

Do not secure the sheetmetal with only JBWeld. It doesn't even need to be 100% air tight, but it does need the sheetmetal secured with proper fasteners so it doesn't fly off and slash the belt, wiring, or fan.

 

[gathermewool]

OP, I'd get rid of the crappy "cold" air intake and re-install the stock unit.

IMO, aftermarket intakes are simply noise-makers with no practical benefit, if not tuned for.

Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by atikovi
Those things don't do much other than collect dirt and dust restricting airflow. The factory setup often has a duct to outside air that is much better.


iIt depends on the engine/platform. The Mazdaspeed branded AEM CAI I installed on my MS3 added 25 hp.


Who told you that? Unless you're tuned for it, all you're going to do is screw up your MAF scaling with ANY plumbing that is different from OEM.

Adding a safe 25HP without a tune? I seriously doubt it!

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted by gathermewool

Who told you that? Unless you're tuned for it, all you're going to do is screw up your MAF scaling with ANY plumbing that is different from OEM.

Adding a safe 25HP without a tune? I seriously doubt it!



Who told me? Mazda- as is borne out by this Sepember 2008 Road and Track article.

When I installed the Mazdaspeed CAI on my 2007 MS3 I performed some in-gear runs as follows: Grassroots Motorsports tested the AEM CAI for the MS3 using 3rd gear 30-70 acceleration times in their June 2009 issue, so I decided to follow suit. A nearby deserted two-lane served as the test site. My procedure was to floor the accelerator pedal at 25 mph, start the stopwatch at 30 mph, and stop it at 70. I made an equal number of runs in both directions. On both test days the ambient temperature was 88F and the relative humidity was 68%. The car had a full tank of BP 93, and the tires were inflated to the recommended pressure. After all runs were timed I threw out the highest and lowest run times in each direction and averaged the times of the remaining runs.
My results were:

30-70 mph stock filter : 5.67 seconds
30-70 mph Mazdaspeed CAI: 5.06 seconds(-0.61 seconds)

And just for giggles, I went back and checked the Grassroots Motorsports results:

30-70 mph stock filter : 5.45 seconds
30-70 mph AEM CAI : 4.85 seconds(-0.60 seconds)

As always, YMMV depending on the car; my F22 retains the stock intake since no aftermarket N55 CAI posts a significant hp gain.

 

[Olas]

Either get yourself a length of dryer hose, and run it from just behind the front grill, into the enclosed box where the filter lives.

OR

Get yourself a length of Aluminium or PVC pipe, stick one end into the rubber hose where your filter is connected to now - run the pipe all the way forward so it sits behind the radiator grille, and put the filter on the other end of your pipe.


Either way, the filter will get access to cold air.

 

[Dave9]

Benefits of cold air aside, most of the time the benefits in everyday drivers, come from the stock filter box being too small so the filter area is smaller.

We don't have very good pictures to get a better sense of the whole area, but rather than sheetmetal, what would probably work better is to take some solid core wire, like standard household electrical wiring, make a wire form out of that to put a cage around the filter, and route it through the header. Next, take heat resistant epoxy and fiberglass cloth and wrap that wire form up.

However, back to my opening statement, often in a truck the filter box isn't so constrained in size and you might be about as well off to just return it to stock.

I don't buy into the "screw up MAF scaling" argument. It should still measure the airflow close enough for this small mod... it's not like this was expected to make a 30% HP difference, and you can check the fuel trims to see how that's working out... well assuming it's got OBD2... telling us nothing other than "truck" was rather incomplete info.

 

[bachman]

Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by gathermewool

Who told you that? Unless you're tuned for it, all you're going to do is screw up your MAF scaling with ANY plumbing that is different from OEM.

Adding a safe 25HP without a tune? I seriously doubt it!



Who told me? Mazda- as is borne out by this Sepember 2008 Road and Track article.

When I installed the Mazdaspeed CAI on my 2007 MS3 I performed some in-gear runs as follows: Grassroots Motorsports tested the AEM CAI for the MS3 using 3rd gear 30-70 acceleration times in their June 2009 issue, so I decided to follow suit. A nearby deserted two-lane served as the test site. My procedure was to floor the accelerator pedal at 25 mph, start the stopwatch at 30 mph, and stop it at 70. I made an equal number of runs in both directions. On both test days the ambient temperature was 88F and the relative humidity was 68%. The car had a full tank of BP 93, and the tires were inflated to the recommended pressure. After all runs were timed I threw out the highest and lowest run times in each direction and averaged the times of the remaining runs.
My results were:

30-70 mph stock filter : 5.67 seconds
30-70 mph Mazdaspeed CAI: 5.06 seconds(-0.61 seconds)

And just for giggles, I went back and checked the Grassroots Motorsports results:

30-70 mph stock filter : 5.45 seconds
30-70 mph AEM CAI : 4.85 seconds(-0.60 seconds)

As always, YMMV depending on the car; my F22 retains the stock intake since no aftermarket N55 CAI posts a significant hp gain.


Nice notation there - Impressed.

Your runs show that consistency, the article you cite spells out that hp bump R&T experienced with just the CAI change.

I wonder how much hay AEM made in an advertising campaign? If they didn't buy a two-page ad in all the car rags noting this exact case or a few other cars that do as well, they were out of their minds.
Seen folks spend $1600 to 2k on exhaust systems netting 12 to 15% gains. Yet twenty-five hp in many cases is pretty darn easy if you are willing to spend close to $1000 or more.
What does that kit cost - I assume it's south of $350 ?

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted by bachman
Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by gathermewool

Who told you that? Unless you're tuned for it, all you're going to do is screw up your MAF scaling with ANY plumbing that is different from OEM.

Adding a safe 25HP without a tune? I seriously doubt it!



Who told me? Mazda- as is borne out by this Sepember 2008 Road and Track article.

When I installed the Mazdaspeed CAI on my 2007 MS3 I performed some in-gear runs as follows: Grassroots Motorsports tested the AEM CAI for the MS3 using 3rd gear 30-70 acceleration times in their June 2009 issue, so I decided to follow suit. A nearby deserted two-lane served as the test site. My procedure was to floor the accelerator pedal at 25 mph, start the stopwatch at 30 mph, and stop it at 70. I made an equal number of runs in both directions. On both test days the ambient temperature was 88F and the relative humidity was 68%. The car had a full tank of BP 93, and the tires were inflated to the recommended pressure. After all runs were timed I threw out the highest and lowest run times in each direction and averaged the times of the remaining runs.
My results were:

30-70 mph stock filter : 5.67 seconds
30-70 mph Mazdaspeed CAI: 5.06 seconds(-0.61 seconds)

And just for giggles, I went back and checked the Grassroots Motorsports results:

30-70 mph stock filter : 5.45 seconds
30-70 mph AEM CAI : 4.85 seconds(-0.60 seconds)

As always, YMMV depending on the car; my F22 retains the stock intake since no aftermarket N55 CAI posts a significant hp gain.


Nice notation there - Impressed.

Your runs show that consistency, the article you cite spells out that hp bump R&T experienced with just the CAI change.

I wonder how much hay AEM made in an advertising campaign? If they didn't buy a two-page ad in all the car rags noting this exact case or a few other cars that do as well, they were out of their minds.
Seen folks spend $1600 to 2k on exhaust systems netting 12 to 15% gains. Yet twenty-five hp in many cases is pretty darn easy if you are willing to spend close to $1000 or more.
What does that kit cost - I assume it's south of $350 ?




Thanks for the kind words. Yes, I paid $315 from an online Mazda dealer in 2008. I believe the AEM branded intake is still available for @$330.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by gathermewool

Who told you that? Unless you're tuned for it, all you're going to do is screw up your MAF scaling with ANY plumbing that is different from OEM.

Adding a safe 25HP without a tune? I seriously doubt it!



Who told me? Mazda- as is borne out by this Sepember 2008 Road and Track article.

When I installed the Mazdaspeed CAI on my 2007 MS3 I performed some in-gear runs as follows: Grassroots Motorsports tested the AEM CAI for the MS3 using 3rd gear 30-70 acceleration times in their June 2009 issue, so I decided to follow suit. A nearby deserted two-lane served as the test site. My procedure was to floor the accelerator pedal at 25 mph, start the stopwatch at 30 mph, and stop it at 70. I made an equal number of runs in both directions. On both test days the ambient temperature was 88F and the relative humidity was 68%. The car had a full tank of BP 93, and the tires were inflated to the recommended pressure. After all runs were timed I threw out the highest and lowest run times in each direction and averaged the times of the remaining runs.
My results were:

30-70 mph stock filter : 5.67 seconds
30-70 mph Mazdaspeed CAI: 5.06 seconds(-0.61 seconds)

And just for giggles, I went back and checked the Grassroots Motorsports results:

30-70 mph stock filter : 5.45 seconds
30-70 mph AEM CAI : 4.85 seconds(-0.60 seconds)

As always, YMMV depending on the car; my F22 retains the stock intake since no aftermarket N55 CAI posts a significant hp gain.


Jesus, how bad is the stock intake???

I didn't gain that much in my STI with an AEM CAI WITH a tune...

What are your fuel trims like? Any increase in knock?

 

[The_Nuke]

Based on the pics I would be reticent to try to close that housing up with anything. When the hood is shut, it will likely do that for you.

The concept of feeding the engine cooler air to make more power is sound, technically speaking, but it is a fool's errand in many daily driven applications. The net power gained from combusting fuel mixed with mildly cooler air is really only noticeable at WOT, and even then the temp delta has to be quite significant.

If this is your daily driver, just leave the intake system alone as it sits (or return to stock if you want). Any modifications you do will not result in noticeable power gains, and that's the best case scenario. It would not be difficult to mess around with it and actually hurt performance.

 

[bachman]

I'd seen a number of photos where a CAI application was not looking optimal in the case of factory designs that route air in very well versus a CAI just kind of sitting there under the hood. Some living in wet areas have had trouble with heavy rains and water under the hood too. I think each CAI design and car application has to be considered on it's own merit just to see if it's worth doing and I'm sure many do plumb the air flow to be ideal. Some charts and tests do show 8 - 10 hp gains but I'm not sure of the fine print. I might better trust the oem type air filter enough to not go K&N or CAI. 15 hp or better might sway me but I'd have to see it as tested on the 1.8 tsi.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted by gathermewool


What are your fuel trims like? Any increase in knock?


No knock issues, but there was an initial problem with fuel trims so Mazda issued a Stop Sale on the intake until a fix was developed. An "air straightener" was developed that fit immediately in front of the MAF, and the fuel trim issues disappeared.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted by bachman
I'd seen a number of photos where a CAI application was not looking optimal in the case of factory designs that route air in very well versus a CAI just kind of sitting there under the hood. Some living in wet areas have had trouble with heavy rains and water under the hood too. I think each CAI design and car application has to be considered on it's own merit just to see if it's worth doing and I'm sure many do plumb the air flow to be ideal. Some charts and tests do show 8 - 10 hp gains but I'm not sure of the fine print. I might better trust the oem type air filter enough to not go K&N or CAI. 15 hp or better might sway me but I'd have to see it as tested on the 1.8 tsi.


The Mazdaspeed/AEM CAI used a DryFlow filter. I was extremely OCD regarding my Mazdaspeed 3 and had a UOA performed at every oil change Silicon and Insolubles remained at or below the Universal Averages after I installed the CAI. Ditto for wear metals.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by gathermewool


What are your fuel trims like? Any increase in knock?


No knock issues, but there was an initial problem with fuel trims so Mazda issued a Stop Sale on the intake until a fix was developed. An "air straightener" was developed that fit immediately in front of the MAF, and the fuel trim issues disappeared.



What do you MS guys use to datalog? In Subies, -1.4* feedback knock correction was usually referred to as phantom knock and was disregarded, as were slightly higher values at low loads. What's the equivalent for you guys?

Very cool that they Mazda actually offered a fix instead of saying that wacky LTFTs are normal, like I feel Subaru would likely do.

Is the picture the stock "upper pipe"? That looks aftermarket. Or are you saying that the Mazda fix, the air straightener before the MAF, also worked with aftermarket intakes, like the CAI you mention?

Thanks again for humoring me, especially after my initially (admittedly) snarky reply!

Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by bachman
I'd seen a number of photos where a CAI application was not looking optimal in the case of factory designs that route air in very well versus a CAI just kind of sitting there under the hood. Some living in wet areas have had trouble with heavy rains and water under the hood too. I think each CAI design and car application has to be considered on it's own merit just to see if it's worth doing and I'm sure many do plumb the air flow to be ideal. Some charts and tests do show 8 - 10 hp gains but I'm not sure of the fine print. I might better trust the oem type air filter enough to not go K&N or CAI. 15 hp or better might sway me but I'd have to see it as tested on the 1.8 tsi.


The Mazdaspeed/AEM CAI used a DryFlow filter. I was extremely OCD regarding my Mazdaspeed 3 and had a UOA performed at every oil change Silicon and Insolubles remained at or below the Universal Averages after I installed the CAI. Ditto for wear metals.



Same here re: UOA, using an AEM dry-flow CAI and Cobb's Stage 1 + AEM off-the-shelf tune on my previous '08 STI. The intake produced more noise than power, but I was able to find the intake used for cheap and Cobb had a map all ready to go, so why not???

 

[Mikey V.]

CAI are a waste of money for most applications. Several hundred bucks for minimal gains. Flow vs Filtration. Stock airboxs and a paper filter work perfectly fine. Most aftermarket CAI induce heat soak and are nothing more than a glorified dirt screen. Save your money and use OEM. I wouldn't use an aftermarket filter oiled or dry filter if it was given to me free.