I have a 2002 toyota celica GT with 60K miles. The guy at Napa said the Ceramix were about the best brake pads around and after reading some reviews I havn't heard anything bad. He did say, however, that, I may want to consider new rotors. He said that the pads were ceramic and that they were a little more aggressive than the stock rotors. He recommended the Napa top end rotors (not groved or drilled), He said that the composition of the iron was better and would withstand the heat produced by the ceramic pads. I don't know alot about brakes only having installed maybe 6-7 sets and wondered if what I was being told was correct. I have never known Toyota to skimp on parts and with only 60K miles I am sure I could have the rotors turned without any problem. I am getting ready to install over the weekend and wondered if it is worth spending an additional $132.00 for the new rotors or $16.00 to have the old ones turned. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank You!! Joe
NEED HELP ASAP **PLEASE ** ROTOR QUESTION
- Thread starter josalbrec
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I would have the old rotors 'cut' before I spent the $$$ on new ones. You should have no problems with the original rotors at 60K miles.
Remember these NAPA parts guys get a bonus for 'adding' addition parts to your purchase.
Remember these NAPA parts guys get a bonus for 'adding' addition parts to your purchase.
Thank you for your reply LT4 Vette!! Do you think the Ceramix Pads will be fine with the stock toyota pads?? I looked online and toyota replacement rotors are 93.00 a piece!! they may be better than the napa.
Sorry, do you think the Ceramix pads be fine with the stock Toyota rotors
There should be no problem since you already got high quality rotors to begin with.
does anyone buy into the whole, "usa iron napa rotors are better than the stock metal toyota uses" ,that the napa guy said. I understand the whole bit about US steel and all.......but its a brake rotor....it's probably made by someone else and reboxed anyway right???
load of horse pucky!
rotors are rotors are rotors...end of story (for me)
rotors are rotors are rotors...end of story (for me)
I felt the rotors and there is a slight ridge on both sides from wear of the existing pads, maybe 1-2 millimeter. I believe the spec is .906 what do you think??
The rotors can be resurfaced without any problems as long as they are above the minimum thickness. New Duralast rotors run $44/each for your car, FYI.
The Napa Ceramix pads seem to be decent. They are made by Raybestos. You can purchase less expensive pads that offer identical performance and quality from other retailers. In fact, Raybesto's own QuietStop line of pads may run only $50/axle depending on where you purchase from. You may want to consider using a semi-metallic pad though. It may also offer you better stopping power and less rotor wear, but possibly at the expense of more dust and more noise (depends). But they do cost less. For instance, a set of Wagner ThermoQuiet pads would run $44 delivered to your door.
Regardless, be sure to wash down the rotor with soap and water before installation. This should remove any metal filings and minimize the chances of brake noise. Also give it a hose down with brake cleaner after everything is complete. Use Permatex or CRC Synthetic Disc Brake Caliper Grease to lube all sliding surfaces and place a thin layer of the pad backing for noise suppression. Also bleed the brakes. Finish up the job with a few burnishing cycles. Take the car up to 40 mph and do a relatively hard (not enough to activate the ABS) stop to about 5 mph, then immediately accelerate to 40 mph. Do this 12 times, then drive for several miles to allow it to cool down. Repeat the cycle once. Don't come to a complete stop at any time during the burnishing period or else you'll ruin everything...
The Napa Ceramix pads seem to be decent. They are made by Raybestos. You can purchase less expensive pads that offer identical performance and quality from other retailers. In fact, Raybesto's own QuietStop line of pads may run only $50/axle depending on where you purchase from. You may want to consider using a semi-metallic pad though. It may also offer you better stopping power and less rotor wear, but possibly at the expense of more dust and more noise (depends). But they do cost less. For instance, a set of Wagner ThermoQuiet pads would run $44 delivered to your door.
Regardless, be sure to wash down the rotor with soap and water before installation. This should remove any metal filings and minimize the chances of brake noise. Also give it a hose down with brake cleaner after everything is complete. Use Permatex or CRC Synthetic Disc Brake Caliper Grease to lube all sliding surfaces and place a thin layer of the pad backing for noise suppression. Also bleed the brakes. Finish up the job with a few burnishing cycles. Take the car up to 40 mph and do a relatively hard (not enough to activate the ABS) stop to about 5 mph, then immediately accelerate to 40 mph. Do this 12 times, then drive for several miles to allow it to cool down. Repeat the cycle once. Don't come to a complete stop at any time during the burnishing period or else you'll ruin everything...
The last time I had my machinist look at my rotors, to see if they would take another turning, he said: "most modern rotors are heat treated and shouldn't be turned as in the past". Don't know personally, just something more to research.
I stopped and looked at a set of Wagner quiet stop pads at O'Reilly and they looked great, not much different than the ceramix pads. Something tells me I got "sold" at napa.
Don't turn rotors......
get new rotors and Duralast Gold pads from AutoZone and you'll have a great brake job for less than $100..
get new rotors and Duralast Gold pads from AutoZone and you'll have a great brake job for less than $100..
My advice is Hawk HPS pads [not written in stone, though].
Also, get new rotors, even if they are Chinese cheap ones.
Use plain ones, not slotted, drilled, dimpled, or coated.
Modern rotors are on the verge of being too light to begin with, and cutting them makes them even thinner. Cutting MIGHT work, but pay a little more for new rotors. Don't forget to clean them off with brake cleaner other good solvent, first.
Also, get new rotors, even if they are Chinese cheap ones.
Use plain ones, not slotted, drilled, dimpled, or coated.
Modern rotors are on the verge of being too light to begin with, and cutting them makes them even thinner. Cutting MIGHT work, but pay a little more for new rotors. Don't forget to clean them off with brake cleaner other good solvent, first.
google brakes and rotors, there's a few very good tech articles worth reading.
not turning rotors is becoming like having to use synthetic oil. It's exaggerated and blown way out of proportion.
all rotors can be turned. the only reason you wouldn't want to turn rotors is if you cut them down and they're below minimum thickness. I'm sure everyone knows what turning rotors means, but did you also know that when you cut the surface it removes material that was on the rotor from the pad and the metal on the rotor that had been damaged from heat (ie warpage)? if you really warped rotors from overheating them which usually isn't the case, that damage doesn't exist all the way through the rotor. It's only a few thousandths into the surface. If the guy cutting the rotors doesn't cut deep enough to remove this, then yeah maybe you'll have pulsation problems sooner than later. This is not due to the rotor being cut, you need to understand what's really happening.
If you're turning rotors for the first time and they're not at minimum thickness, you're not going to have a warpage problem after. You'll have bigger problems from not using rotor friendly pads, bad driving habits, bad calipers, and rust on your hub preventing the rotor from sitting flat.
cutting a few thousandths off a rotor and concluding it'll warp because there's less material for heat sink than before is retarded. you can spin this information and logic both ways, regarding mass and heat retention. More mass = hold more heat, less mass = less heat = cool faster. Hey, run thinner rotors racing because they'll cool faster. Truth is in the minimum thickness, that's it. Anywhere between minimum thickness and whatever new thickness might be is just a pointless topic for debate, except for the guy selling you the new rotor.
they "recommend" you don't turn rotors because they want to make money off you buying new rotors. Just like starters and alternators- you can't buy replacement solenoids or rectifiers anymore for $10-$20. They call them non servicable items and you have to turn the whole thing in and buy a whole new starter/alternator for $100 or more. It's all business!
not turning rotors is becoming like having to use synthetic oil. It's exaggerated and blown way out of proportion.
all rotors can be turned. the only reason you wouldn't want to turn rotors is if you cut them down and they're below minimum thickness. I'm sure everyone knows what turning rotors means, but did you also know that when you cut the surface it removes material that was on the rotor from the pad and the metal on the rotor that had been damaged from heat (ie warpage)? if you really warped rotors from overheating them which usually isn't the case, that damage doesn't exist all the way through the rotor. It's only a few thousandths into the surface. If the guy cutting the rotors doesn't cut deep enough to remove this, then yeah maybe you'll have pulsation problems sooner than later. This is not due to the rotor being cut, you need to understand what's really happening.
If you're turning rotors for the first time and they're not at minimum thickness, you're not going to have a warpage problem after. You'll have bigger problems from not using rotor friendly pads, bad driving habits, bad calipers, and rust on your hub preventing the rotor from sitting flat.
cutting a few thousandths off a rotor and concluding it'll warp because there's less material for heat sink than before is retarded. you can spin this information and logic both ways, regarding mass and heat retention. More mass = hold more heat, less mass = less heat = cool faster. Hey, run thinner rotors racing because they'll cool faster. Truth is in the minimum thickness, that's it. Anywhere between minimum thickness and whatever new thickness might be is just a pointless topic for debate, except for the guy selling you the new rotor.
they "recommend" you don't turn rotors because they want to make money off you buying new rotors. Just like starters and alternators- you can't buy replacement solenoids or rectifiers anymore for $10-$20. They call them non servicable items and you have to turn the whole thing in and buy a whole new starter/alternator for $100 or more. It's all business!
I would tend to disagree with that due to the differences in casting, material composition, post cast process etc. However, they all have a meet some minimum requirments.
Would any of this make a difference. In a light vehicle under normal braking, probably not. It would be more apparent in heavily loaded and high brake use applications. Just my opinon. FWIW
Junior-
I was referring to this posting :
"...does anyone buy into the whole, "usa iron napa rotors are better than the stock metal toyota uses" ,that the napa guy said. I understand the whole bit about US steel and all.......but a brake rotor....it's probably made by someone else and reboxed anyway right??? ..."
unless you are dealing with some really dramatic composition of some sort or some extremely exotic/highly modified race car, otherwise, most of the rotors for common joe's street car's use are of very similar metal composition from foundries all over the world and thus warpage will happen eventually.
my 2c's worth.
Afterall: I've recently moved from US/Canadian/Italian foundries to Chinese these days and never looked back since...
I was referring to this posting :
"...does anyone buy into the whole, "usa iron napa rotors are better than the stock metal toyota uses" ,that the napa guy said. I understand the whole bit about US steel and all.......but a brake rotor....it's probably made by someone else and reboxed anyway right??? ..."
unless you are dealing with some really dramatic composition of some sort or some extremely exotic/highly modified race car, otherwise, most of the rotors for common joe's street car's use are of very similar metal composition from foundries all over the world and thus warpage will happen eventually.
my 2c's worth.
Afterall: I've recently moved from US/Canadian/Italian foundries to Chinese these days and never looked back since...
well..... took the rotors took orellys for a cutting and they measured at .970 the new rotors measured at .985 . The manager said he would have to take about .02 off to cut properly and they would be .950 when finished. Spec for the rotor is .906 .....any additional thoughts are VERY welcome. I am still kicking around the idea of new rotors. A mechanic came into work today and said he would put on new rotors simply because ceramic pads get soooo hot that the heat may damage the cut rotors that are stock. ...thoughts are welcome....thank you!!
While some folks sez it's wasteful to do so if the original rotor still within spec and good for a couple more machining, IMHO some metal composition, there are some rotors that can only take so many thermal cycles before they gradually becomes warped and will continue in doing so even after you machine it as a last attempt to get extra mileage out of it.
In this case, provided that the replacement rotors are of reasonable cost, I would simply replace then and start from 0kms again. That way, I know my rotors will be good and stay reasonably true over the next 6+ yrs.
My 2c's worth.
In this case, provided that the replacement rotors are of reasonable cost, I would simply replace then and start from 0kms again. That way, I know my rotors will be good and stay reasonably true over the next 6+ yrs.
My 2c's worth.
I'd have the rotors turned, and wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Unless you're taking up autocross, you're not going to be making THAT much more heat than you would with stock pads... matter or fact, from a thermodynamics standpoint- I can't see why you'd be making ANY more heat if your driving habits remain the same.
I also have a hard time believing that new Napa rotors are anything special. If you were comparing high-dollar performance parts with stock Yota parts... then there could be a difference. But I seriously doubt that plain ol' Napa rotors are anything special. And .035" isn't going to make any difference.
I also have a hard time believing that new Napa rotors are anything special. If you were comparing high-dollar performance parts with stock Yota parts... then there could be a difference. But I seriously doubt that plain ol' Napa rotors are anything special. And .035" isn't going to make any difference.
Oh and BTW: in my case, trueing the rotors cost about 16~18CAD each + tax (crrapy tires)
Buying a new one (Chinese) cost 19.95CAD + tax. In this case, would you consider buying some fresh iron if you are in my shoes?
Buying a new one (Chinese) cost 19.95CAD + tax. In this case, would you consider buying some fresh iron if you are in my shoes?
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