Natural Gas feed line to grill question

[dja4260]

I'm purchasing a higher end grill from a family member. It's a never used, Wilmington Cape Fear 40k btu natural gas grill. My 50 gallon natural gas hot water heater is located in the corner of my attached garage. My goal would be to run black pipe off the existing gas set up (see red circle in picture) along the wall, exiting the garage, allowing me to hook the grill up. The gas line feed from the wall to the h2o heater is a small flexible line that meets 3/4''in black pipe. My furnace is also gas and has 3/4''in black pipe feeding it. Those are the only natural gas items in my home.

My question/concern:
-Will the small diameter line prior to the 3/4''in black pipe be able to feed the hot water heater the the grill simultaneously?
-Is the red circle in my picture where you would tee of the existing?

Per the link below, I should have sufficient flow for the hot water heater, grill, and furnace. Assuming the house is all 3/4''in pipe. I have no way to verify as the basement is finished. It is 3/4''in from the gas meter into the house...

https://www.edcgov.us/Government/building/documents/Gas%20Pipe%20Sizing%20%28Natural%29.pdf

Thank you

 

[Rand]

red circle is the drip leg.

That line is possibly/probably too small.
natural gas is very low psi and grill + hot water tank is pushing 80k+ btu
that gas line is it even 1/2"? and a long run you will have issues since the natural gas is usually well under 1psi.

IMO you need 3/4" line to where you would tee it off.. then half inch to the water heater and half inch to the grill.. most likely but depends on the length.
It varies by your house setup and I'm not a pro.

I have 1.25" across basement to 2" for 20ft to get it some volume, then it goes to 3/4" a branch drops down to furnace 1/2" and another 1/2" branch goes to the gas stove.

they make really nice flexi conduct that is uv resistant for outside if that works for your application.. no personal knowledge of hooking up a natural gas grill.

My buddy has an ancient weber but its a pita sometimes because you cant move it.

For the chart its length of pipe, size of pipe then btu

so if you have a 10ft run of 1/2" it will support 108k btu.

or a 50ft run of 3/4" will support 98k btu

 

[dja4260]

red circle is the drip leg.

Also that line is possibly too small.
natural gas is very low psi and grill + hot water tank is probably pushing 80k btu

I can add a tee before the drip leg or after the regulator...Yes, both are 40k btu each at full tilt, 80k total, which is why the choke point concerns me.

 

[Rand]

I can add a tee before the drip leg or after the regulator...Yes, both are 40k btu each at full tilt, 80k total, which is why the choke point concerns me.

what size is that bendable line? looks tiny in picture. What is the length of it from where it hooks into the main line is main line 1"? etc we need more info.

pictures would be good too. or draw a diagram with the lengths and sizes of pipes and where they connect.

Keeping in mind I am not a plumber.. however I'm sure we have some here once you have provided enough detailed info.

 

[JHZR2]

That small line coming through the wall is the line in question, not the tiny bit of black pipe that goes between the regulator and heater.

You have NG in that little copper pipe? Ive seen pipe like that used for LPG, but not for NG.

What is the BTU rating of your water heater?

Id be concerned about both at the same time off that tiny pipe, but you can probably run one item up the the same rating as your water heater burner, off of that feed.

 

[dja4260]

That small line coming through the wall is the line in question, not the tiny bit of black pipe that goes between the regulator and heater.

You have NG in that little copper pipe? Ive seen pipe like that used for LPG, but not for NG.

What is the BTU rating of your water heater?

Id be concerned about both at the same time off that tiny pipe, but you can probably run one item up the the same rating as your water heater burner, off of that feed.

I’m fairly certain the house is all 3/4”in pipe. I don’t know how far that copper flex pipe runs into the wall/ceiling of the basement. It could be 15 feet or just inside the wall...it’s never given the 40k btu hot water heater an issue....

 

[Wolf359]

I think there's also a rating on the gas meter. What does the meter say?

 

[Eddie]

I ran a 125,000 btu furnace with 3/4 black iron pipe. I'd just run the 3/4 pipe as far as I could and reduce it to attach to the grill. Ed

 

[KJSmith]

You need to attach to the line before that small copper line.... at the wall.
Put your "T" there.
No need to try and run both the water heater and grill off that small copper line.

I don't know the code in your area, but copper and gas lines don't go together.
Replace the copper with the proper flex line if your area allows.

 

[Dinoburner]

Retired gas worker here with 40 plus years time in job and my best advice is to have a professional advise on pipe sizes and lengths. Pressure drops can cause real problems in a gas system. Different types of piping have their own flow capacities.

 

[RhondaHonda]

I’d like to run a line to a gas fire pit so this is of interest to me. But as others have said, I think you are undersized or will only be able to run the grill or water heater but not both. I had to get a new gas meter when we built an addition and added a 400k pool heater. I likely wouldn’t run a gas fire pit (100-150k btu) as the same time as the pool heater so it might not be an issue but I’ll call someone first.

I think they ran 1.25” to the pool heater and then from there it goes to the addition for a gas furnace, stove/range and water heater. I’ve got 4 gas furnaces, a 400k btu pool heater, 2 gas ranges, 3 gas fireplaces and 3 gas water heaters and it all works fine. Call your gas company, they can probably give you advice. They changed our meter at no charge. Basically if you have a 3/4” line I don’t think that’s enough to tee off of.

 

[Dennywires]

this work should be done by a licensed plumber with the ability to work on gas. they would know how to calculate the gas pressure and supply output of your meter depending on how many gas appliances you have to feed.

 

[vweosdriver]

this work should be done by a licensed plumber with the ability to work on gas. they would know how to calculate the gas pressure and supply output of your meter depending on how many gas appliances you have to feed.

I used copper pipe for my grill. Had gas company change my meter to a high pressure meter (no charge) with pressure reducers at usage points. That gave me plenty of volume.

 

[Dennywires]

I used copper pipe for my grill. Had gas company change my meter to a high pressure meter (no charge) with pressure reducers at usage points. That gave me plenty of volume.

I'm not a licensed plumber but been in the trades for quite awhile I never heard of copper being used in natural gas.

 

[Fitter30]

I'm not a licensed plumber but been in the trades for quite awhile I never heard of copper being used in natural gas.

I've been installing copper tubing l, k or acr in saint louis and surrounding area for 40+ years. Ng has to contain less than 0.3 grains of hydrogen sulfide per 100 standard cubic feet of gas which passes all codes in this area. Solder joints have to be Sil Pos.

 

[mk378]

The regulator at the appliance is not typical. It suggests a two-stage system which is common with propane and apparently occasionally used with NG.

Since the main line is high pressure, small pipe can be used there. But a regulator is needed at each appliance including of course the grill.

 

[Fitter30]

With the regulator before heater and tell me gas pressure is above 7" - 1 2". Might be as high as two pounds. Need to know what pressure it is before picking pipe type and size.

 

[mk378]

The dial plate on the gas meter will show the pressure it is designed to operate at.

 

[dja4260]

The dial plate on the gas meter will show the pressure it is designed to operate at.

The left run after the regulator is to the fireplace with a regulator and the vertical run goes into the house to the furnace and hot water heater.

Thoughts?

 

[Wolf359]

The left run after the regulator is to the fireplace with a regulator and the vertical run goes into the house to the furnace and hot water heater.

Thoughts?

That looks pretty beat. Does it even have a date code on it?