Nascar at it again

[RedOak]

I enjoy Sprint Cup because of the competition. I can not say I am a Ford, Dodge, Toyota, or Chevy man. The whole idea of the COT was to level out the playing field for all teams and suppose to cut costs, which did not happen. So when Toyota makes major improvements in the engine department Nascar comes along and reduces their horsepower to level out the competition. What the heck, if they have that advantage then let it be. This is in the Nationwide series, and may be looked at in the Sprint Cup also. They ran several motors in their research center dynos and concluded that Toyota did have the horsepower advantage. Well so what, everyone needs to work a bit harder to catch up. I think that is what competition is about. Interesting example, Jimmy Johnson by his standards was having a bad year but commented how hard all Hendrick teams were working in he motor shop, fabrication department, and on the balance of the new cars. Well he wins the tire dust 400 at Indy and now sits on the poll at Pocono. Gordon is right near in the qualifying order and also finished in the top ten at Indy. Fenway Yates engines are always strong and some Dodge teams make high horsepower, notably Gillette motors on the 9 car. So Nascar just leave it alone, Kyle Busch and his new team have great engine packages as does Stewart and Hamlin. Are they going to penalize them because Doug Yates motors can't turn the rpm's and top speed at the end of the long pond straight? Let competition be competition.

 

[chief]

Im with you RedOak. With the COT in place start racing and quit trying to be so PC. Racing is competition Whoever burns the midnite oil and gains an advantage should be rewarded. The competition will catch up. Let the free market run.

 

[sunfire]

Nascar = communists

 

[Greggy_D]

Nascar became the biggest joke around the late 90's - early 2000's. All this cash was infused into the sport and just ruined it.

 

[bretfraz]

Nice thing about "all this cash" is people who work in the sport can actually make a living at it. The sport has attracted talented, skilled people from all walks of life. I'd rather be a $20 an hour welder working for a well-funded race team than working in a nasty metal shop covered in grime, sweat and metal shavings all day.

The money in NASCAR has given guys the opportunity to start a family and own a home while still being able to follow their dreams and passions. They can work in a nice environment for a company that provides good benefits and opportunities to succeed, move up the ladder and have a rewarding career.

In life you hear the same mantra: "Follow your dreams, do what you love and the money will come eventually". Good thing people in NASCAR don't take personal advice from its detractors.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: chief
Whoever burns the midnite oil and gains an advantage should be rewarded. The competition will catch up. Let the free market run.


It's more like whoever has the trillion$$ of Camry/Corolla profits gains a monopoly and kills the whole series.
Like TOY did to the IMSA GT series with "All American Racing"

traitor-boy's (Dan Gurney) help in the 90s.

Racing does NOT HAVE TO reflect your import biased/dominated "free market"!! :no-no:

 

[chief]

Racing does NOT HAVE TO reflect your import biased/dominated "free market"!! :no-no:

Hand I dont have a import bias. I do have a 1986 Toyota truck I got from my Dad when he passed away. I have only bought Datsun/Nissans since 1974 though. Is Nissan into NASCAR? Ive been following NASCAR since the mid sixties and racing is competition. If one team has an edge on the competition let them win. The rest will catch up. If NASCAR is going to take from one and give to the other then thats not competition or racing.

the trillion$$ of Camry/Corolla profits

Thats alot of obscene profit. The gub-ment should take some of that money as a windfall tax.

By the way, Im a card carrying member of the JR. Nation. He drives a Chevy.

 

[Dieselbob]

NASCAR restricting the power of the Toyotas was in the Nationwide Series only and was for a good reason. The Toyota teams were allowed to run their newest engine package, while the other makes (Chevy in particular) were NOT allowed to run their newest engine, the RO7 in Chevy's case, they have to run the 10 year old SB2.2. I assume that next year, all four manufacturers will be allowed to run their newest hardware in the Nationwide series and the restiction on the Toyotas will go away. My complaint with NASCAR engines is that when Dodge came to NASCAR, they were allowed to build an engine that had very little to do with any engine they had ever released in a production vehicle. When Toyota came along, they were basically allowed to pick and choose the best parts of the three competitor's engines and submit a clean slate engine that is not even remotely close to ANY engine they have EVER put in a passenger car. I think that is wrong. Now the other three have been forced to counter with new engines that are farther and farther away from anything they actually produced. I say Chevy should be running an engine based off the LS series, Ford the modular V-8, and Dodge the Hemi. Formulas could have been adopted to balance out the differences between the pushrod, OHC and Hemi motors. I would have told Toyota, "You want to join NASCAR? Then build a big bore iron V8 and put it into at least 100,000 production vehicles, or leave us alone!"

 

[RedOak]

I see what you are saying, and yes it was only in Nationwide. But Toyota still has to meet the cubic inches spec. and it is a push rod engine just like any other manufacturer. They had the go ahead to build and supply their teams with better motors this year, but they are of the same specs as other brands. Others just have to work harder to catch up. I am not a Toyota fan but if they have outworked the others than why be punished in the Nationwide series.

 

[Dieselbob]

Chevy HAS their answer to the Toyota engine, and has had it since April 07' in the RO7 engine, they just aren't allowed to use it. Why? I assume that NASCAR wanted the Chevy teams to burn up their supply of SB2.2 engines first. So right now they have to compete against the NEW Toyota engine with a ten year old redesign based off a 1955 original design. I can't imagine why the playing field might be a little off kilter....

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: Dieselbob
I can't imagine why the playing field might be a little off kilter....


Well it most certainly IS in the global economist's 'free trade/open markets'

attitude towards TOY/Japan, Inc. so why not in NASCAR as well??

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Dieselbob
When Toyota came along, they were basically allowed to pick and choose the best parts of the three competitor's engines and submit a clean slate engine that is not even remotely close to ANY engine they have EVER put in a passenger car. I think that is wrong.


Ford did the same thing downunder.

A move away from the old "touring cars" model was reputedly going to include V-8s, and the Euro 2.5 litres.

Ford bleated that their 302 wouldn't keep up, and wanted to use NASCAR type engines...CAMS complied. Holden, who had a home grown V-8, complained that was unfair, as there was no NASCAR variant of the local V-8. CAMS let them use Chev NASCAR gear.

Larry Perkins built a special Holden for his last Bathurst, using slide throttles etc. that would not work on the chevs, and won.

Those running the NASCAR gear complained about his "unfair advantage", and he was ruled out the next year, having to join the Chev crowd.

So even the "Good ole boys" know how to stuff a racing series (and create the total demise of the Oz home gron V-8).

 

[dailydriver]

So Shannow, Holden is no longer using LSx based engines, and Ford is no longer using the 32 valve, 4 cam 'Romeo" engines in the Ozzie V-8 touring series??!!??

When did this 'roundy-round' engine rule go into effect?

 

[Shannow]

"V-8 supercars" have been in for ages.

At the time that the rules came in, Ford were using the pushrod Windsor, and Holden their own V-8 based on the engine that they developed and released in the very late 60s, and developed up to a fairly decent engine.

The concept was introduced in 1993.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8_Supercar

As soon as they put Chevs in the racecars, they dropped the local V-8 and went to the Chev V-8s. Ford run the multicammers in their street cars.

Both run 5 litre NASCAR engines, albeit with fuel injection, and a 7,500RPM rev limit. Both run 9" diffs, and aftermarket sequential 6 speed boxes.

Larry Perkins, in protest built his race car with a street based Holden Block, and flogged them in the last Bathurst to feature the Holden V-8...then the NASCAR runners whined to get his "benefits" banned.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
"V-8 supercars" have been in for ages.

At the time that the rules came in, Ford were using the pushrod Windsor, and Holden their own V-8 based on the engine that they developed and released in the very late 60s, and developed up to a fairly decent engine.

The concept was introduced in 1993.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8_Supercar

As soon as they put Chevs in the racecars, they dropped the local V-8 and went to the Chev V-8s. Ford run the multicammers in their street cars.

Both run 5 litre NASCAR engines, albeit with fuel injection, and a 7,500RPM rev limit. Both run 9" diffs, and aftermarket sequential 6 speed boxes.

Larry Perkins, in protest built his race car with a street based Holden Block, and flogged them in the last Bathurst to feature the Holden V-8...then the NASCAR runners whined to get his "benefits" banned.


So the V-8 Supercars never ran the current production blocks (LSx in Commodores, 'Romeo' based mod motor in Falcons) in the recent past to present??

THANKS, because that is interesting news to me and something I never knew before (when they used to show that series on Speed Channel, they NEVER went into the tech specs of the cars, of course!).
That being said it is kind of funky (but UBER-cool!) thinking of those racing engines with injection instead of carbs (pretty much non existent here in the states, except for sprint cars and the few who elected to take the displacement penalties of injection over carbs in the now defunct Trans Am road race series).
Funkier (and again, cooler) yet, that they use sequentials hooked up to the roundy round engines!!

Are the 9" diffs a center section with independent half shafts, or just a solid Ford complete 9" axle???

 

[Shannow]

That's right, they never got the street based engines. (The Ute series uses the prod engines I believe).

The diffs are spooled 9" live axle, with the housing manufactured to give a fixed negative camber. Formerly they used the slop in the splines to allow the camber, I think some may use CVs, but not sure.

Hollinger 6 speeds (dog engagement) were standard H pattern up to this year when sequential was allowed (it's causing the drivers some grief).

The 302 V-8s make around 620-650 hp with the EFI and 7,500RPM rev limit.

 

[Lumberg]

The engines are homologated like in F1. Blueprints have to be submitted and approved by NASCAR. The process takes months, sometimes years.

The most recently approved engine gernerally has the advantage. If they just leave things alone, Chevy and/or Ford would create and engine that incorporates whatever Toyota did and then some, and they would have the advantage.

Apparently a lot of the current stuff uses diamond-like coatings. You have to redesign angles and stuff when you go from roller rockers to DLC type, so it's not like you can just switch parts and go. Once a domestic manufacturer figures it out (they probably already have, they are just preparing the paperwork) they'll get their design homologated and the cycle will continue.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
The diffs are spooled 9" live axle, with the housing manufactured to give a fixed negative camber.


Are you sure that they are spooled and not using a Detroit Locker a la NASCAR (and Trans Am used to)??!!

I just can't see them getting around turns as well as I remember them doing (without 'drifting' EVERY one!) with a spool in place of a diff!!

 

[Shannow]

I've got a set of the original rules here (not recent, as the originals didn't allow sequential shift).

"All other components of the drive train, including the propeller shaft, final drive and axles are free, save that the final drive must not incorporate any differential action"

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
I've got a set of the original rules here (not recent, as the originals didn't allow sequential shift).

"All other components of the drive train, including the propeller shaft, final drive and axles are free, save that the final drive must not incorporate any differential action"


WOW! That's just crazy!!

It's amazing that they are not perpetually sideways in those beasts!! (Tire wear must be a B**** on them!)
Also makes one admire and respect the pilots of those monsters all the more!!!