NAPA Platinum Oil Filter

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Wix does not provide which testing standard they are using.

And they whitewashed the data.


Yes, WIX will not divulge which test spec they used to obtain their efficiency data. They will also tell you that indeed the XP efficiency is 50% @ 20 microns, and it's not a misprint.

If anyone doesn't believe that, just give them a call and ask. Here's their number: (704) 853-6149
 
Originally Posted By: Phishin
dnewton3....

I think what he was trying to say is....Fram is lying. Wix is publishing REAL numbers, and Fram is just publishing numbers.

But maybe I'm misunderstanding what he was trying to say.


I curious on how Fram is lying, and how can you say WIX publishes real numbers when they won't even reference what test spec they used to obtain those numbers?
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Yes, WIX will not divulge which test spec they used to obtain their efficiency data. They will also tell you that indeed the XP efficiency is 50% @ 20 microns, and it's not a misprint.

The whitewashing was referring to them switching all their data to exactly the same number. That's why I have some skepticism about the XP numbers. There is one XP number that really bothers me though, and that's the number behind the dollar sign.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
There is one XP number that really bothers me though, and that's the number behind the dollar sign.
wink.gif



We got Mobil 1 0W-40 down here for $26.44 /5 quart bottle. Would you run it in your Infinity for that price?
 
I agree that Wix has "whitewashed" their data; most of it is the 2/20=6/20 stuff now. Not all of it, but most of the filters are set to this now. You can, if you want to see the historical data for many filters, go over to the fleetfilter.com site and see the "old" data for filters there (it was there when I last looked a few weeks ago). I like their Wix line (non-XP) filters and use them (or NG equiv), but I abhor their lame customer service canned and absent answers.

As for Fram, I have no reason to believe they are lying about their data. They cite a specific ISO test and give a stated level of performance. What would be the basis to think they were untrue ratings? I like their TG filters and use them; good pricing and solid design.
 
Last edited:
32.gif


I see varying beta numbers posted for WIX (depending on where you look). In the case of a WIX 57151 that lists the beta as 2/20/75=3/12/17. Two questions:

1. Do we think these beta numbers are correct?
2. Do these beta numbers correspond to:
  • 50% efficient @3 microns
  • 95% efficient @12 microns
  • 98.7% efficient @17 microns
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
We got Mobil 1 0W-40 down here for $26.44 /5 quart bottle. Would you run it in your Infinity for that price?

That's a hair cheaper than my Delvac 1, so probably.
wink.gif
Conventional at Walmart Canada and Canadian Tire have a regular price higher than what you pay for Mobil 1 0w-40. Now you know why I prefer the distributor.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
32.gif


I see varying beta numbers posted for WIX (depending on where you look). In the case of a WIX 57151 that lists the beta as 2/20/75=3/12/17. Two questions:

1. Do we think these beta numbers are correct?
2. Do these beta numbers correspond to:
  • 50% efficient @3 microns
  • 95% efficient @12 microns
  • 98.7% efficient @17 microns


Answer to #1: If they are true, they are pretty good numbers.
Answer to #2: Yes
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
As for Fram, I have no reason to believe they are lying about their data. They cite a specific ISO test and give a stated level of performance. What would be the basis to think they were untrue ratings? I like their TG filters and use them; good pricing and solid design.


This is when the researcher/tin-foil hat persona in me say "hold on"
smile.gif

Quote:
FRAM Group testing of average filter efficiency and dirt holding capacity using FRAM XG3387A, XG8A, and XG4967 and their leading economy filter model equivalents under ISO 4548-12 for particles > 20 microns.


ISO 4548-12 used the "@" symbol so there is no need for the ">" symbol in Fram's advertising. Now, before I feed the anti-Fram trolls or get into another big debate about it... that language is akin to WIX not stating which test because Fram introduces a new metric that is not included in the testing procedure. So, even with Fram or Wix you kinda have to make a leap of faith to know if they are using ISO standard or not despite leaving out the metric or altering the language.

I think the Fram is likely fine. I don't think it is really 99%/99.9% (whatever they claim) @ 20 microns (but close), but for marketing it is made to look like that... just how Purolator fudges theirs. It is a talking-point arms race.
 
I don't think the ISO 4548-12 test spec specifically says you have to express your data with the '@' symbol. This has been beat to death a few times, and for all practical purposes when talking about filter efficiency, the '>' is essentially the same as '@' when you approach the stated particle size. In other words, 20.000001 is still > than 20 ... so it's basically becomes '@20 microns'.

At least Fram specifies that their efficiency numbers are based on the average of 3 or 4 different sized filters, unlike Purolator, etc who always use their most gigantic filter as their test reference.
 
From a scientific perspective, particularly when it comes to measurement, there is no such thing as "=" or "=>" since equals is only a mathematical construct. All physical measurements, no matter how good, will have an error bar, and that seems to be regularly missed.

In any event, I don't worry about it; I don't chase efficiency. As long as it's reasonably constructed, reasonably priced, and not simply a rock catcher, I'm happy. High efficiency is just a bonus.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I don't think the ISO 4548-12 test spec specifically says you have to express your data with the '@' symbol. This has been beat to death a few times, and for all practical purposes when talking about filter efficiency, the '>' is essentially the same as '@' when you approach the stated particle size. In other words, 20.000001 is still > than 20 ... so it's basically becomes '@20 microns'.

At least Fram specifies that their efficiency numbers are based on the average of 3 or 4 different sized filters, unlike Purolator, etc who always use their most gigantic filter as their test reference.


The ISO does use @ and that is important because there is the margin of error (+/-) that goes into the use of @ for the standard. However, the ">" approaching 20.000001 is not what the testing standard describes (nor what it is testing) so we are at a loss due to Fram ambiguity. It is really 98.8 @ 20? We don't know. Normally, when I see ">" within research, it often (but not always) includes a accumulation within a range. So, Fram using ">" when others are using "@" is just as big of an issue as when Wix is mum on the standard and everyone else is citing ISO 4548-12

Another substitute example. Volatility @ 250ºC (ASTM D5800) is capped at 15% for the SN standard, yes? That standard also uses the "@" symbol. So if Brand X is 14% @ 250ºC (but does not specify ASTM D5800)and another (using the "" symbol, lesser than for this example) is 13% " user changes what the standard is using, it becomes muddled. So which is best? We can't make a apples to apples comparison. It is not that Fram is a "bad product" just using less that optimal marketing language. I still think that the Ultra > XP.

It is marketing muddling to hopefully have a user make a faith-based decision.

I think we both agree that Purolator is ummmm..... tearrific.
 
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I don't think the ISO 4548-12 test spec specifically says you have to express your data with the '@' symbol. This has been beat to death a few times, and for all practical purposes when talking about filter efficiency, the '>' is essentially the same as '@' when you approach the stated particle size. In other words, 20.000001 is still > than 20 ... so it's basically becomes '@20 microns'.

At least Fram specifies that their efficiency numbers are based on the average of 3 or 4 different sized filters, unlike Purolator, etc who always use their most gigantic filter as their test reference.


The ISO does use @ and that is important because there is the margin of error (+/-) that goes into the use of @ for the standard. However, the ">" approaching 20.000001 is not what the testing standard describes (nor what it is testing) so we are at a loss due to Fram ambiguity. It is really 98.8 @ 20? We don't know. Normally, when I see ">" within research, it often (but not always) includes a accumulation within a range. So, Fram using ">" when others are using "@" is just as big of an issue as when Wix is mum on the standard and everyone else is citing ISO 4548-12.


Do you have a copy of ISO 4548-12 that points out specifically that the tested efficiency needs to be expressed with "@"?

Someone technically couldn't use ">20 microns" without including every particle that is bigger than 20 microns, including ones that are just a minuscule larger ... ie, 20.000001 microns.
 
Hopefully, as Jay has said they will be updating their boxes to have better described efficiency number so that this discussion will be non existent in the future.

In the end, you either believe the numbers or you don't. People can argue about them even when they are clearly defined for the brands they don't like and will passively accept their own brands numbers regardless how whitewashed they are.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Answer to #1: If they are true, they are pretty good numbers. Answer to #2: Yes
I grabbed one as part of the Rotella/Delo rebate at OReilly's. First OC is coming up on the PSD, but I will save the WIX for later, MCs are on deck and up to bat first.
 
I agree with the less than ideal marketing language ambiguity. But good gracious
smile.gif
does this totally matter in the real world? I don't think so.
How blue is the sky above? True blue? Blue as the deep sea? Carolina blue? Jet Blue? Baby blue?
18.gif
18.gif
18.gif

Y'all are funny. Super smart though. Which I honestly respect. But holy cow
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
32.gif


I see varying beta numbers posted for WIX (depending on where you look). In the case of a WIX 57151 that lists the beta as 2/20/75=3/12/17. Two questions:

1. Do we think these beta numbers are correct?
2. Do these beta numbers correspond to:
  • 50% efficient @3 microns
  • 95% efficient @12 microns
  • 98.7% efficient @17 microns

Posting on here to find the Wix 57151 later when I change the oil filter over to this on my 6.8 gas engine.

ROD
 
Originally Posted By: rrounds
Posting on here to find the Wix 57151 later when I change the oil filter over to this on my 6.8 gas engine.
Are you installing some sort of bypass system? This filter is for a 6.7L Powerstroke diesel.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom