Nano lubrication?

[tommygunn]

I have been searching but haven't found any decent information about using nano particles in oil to make a sort of ball bearing type of lubrication. I came across this article about Nissan having a special patended oil that uses this idea so it seems to be more then snake oil.

Then I found both NanoMaterials and DiamondLube which seem to offer something similar to the Nissan oil, but I can not find anyone with any experience with these products. Therefore I turn to the people on BITOG and ask do anyone here have any experience or any thoughts regarding this nano lubrication technology? Is this the future of oil or just a fad?

 

[dparm]

If Nissan's patent was really that great, I suspect we would've seen other companies trying to license it. The Nissan 'ester' oil is a bit of a joke. $12+ per quart and it's basically just a group II/III oil with a small amount of their additive.

We ran it in my mom's Infiniti (VQ35HR motor) and the UOA was rather disappointing. I can post it if you're interested.

 

[Flying_A]

Originally Posted By: tommygunn
nano particles in oil to make a sort of ball bearing type of lubrication


It may not be "Nano" particles but this what oil essentially already is on a molecular level.

 

[jonny-b]

Hi, Tommygun.
I have used Diamondlube in several applications, and found it to be working very good.
The easiest way to see what it does, is to order one of their smallest/cheapest products, and try it on something where "normal" lubrication isn't good enough(or on something that is defect).
A good test could be a defect wheel bearing.
I did this, two times, and it actually worked.
This can cost the enormous sum of $25.

Or, you can do like most people frequenting this board does; listen to those who have never tried it, but have an endless list of reasons to why it doesn't work

It's really that easy

 

[CATERHAM]

G-Oil 5w30 Racing oil is claimed to contain a nanoized geodesic bearing additive; VOA is below:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2143217

 

[chubbs1]

Nano-Technology is being used more in the automotive industry. BMW is using special nano coatings in their engines to reduce friction thus reducing energy loss. There is a good article on it in last months Lubes 'n' Greases magazine. As for some of those pour in products, I have never used any myself but I have been tempted to try one. I just have not been able to make that leap since i am not sure what products to trust. I have newer cars as well and they all run pretty well with just the oil I put in them.

I have used LubeGard Blue Engine Oil Additive which is an ester based product and I could immediately tell a smoother ride in my Civic. I think LubeGard products in general are excellent and are used in some form by many BITOG members. I would think that if there were other products out there that were exceptional we would be getting wind of them by now. Who knows?

 

[tommygunn]

Very interesting information, the one that had me the most interested was actually NanoMaterials NanoLub RC-X because they not only have the more professional site of the two companies mentioned, but they also show how the particles peel of when under stress to coat so it sort of offers double protection.

On the other side DiamondLube is more similar to the Nissan oil which means it is based on tried technology.

The question I am wondering about is this the future of lubrication?

Also I would love an UOA of the Nissan oil and I intend to try the LubeGard oil additive in the future.

 

[dparm]

Sheared out of grade in 2200 miles. This is my mom's car, she's not exactly a lead-foot.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: tommygunn
On the other side DiamondLube is more similar to the Nissan oil which means it is based on tried technology.

The question I am wondering about is this the future of lubrication?


The thing is, though, that Nissan didn't develop this oil to improve lubrication, from an engine longevity or fuel economy standpoint. They introduced it to reduce ticking at certain RPMs in certain engines. Not all the potentially affected engines had the problem (mine does not) and it is merely a cosmetic issue.

It's pretty much the niche product of all niche products, and is priced accordingly.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: chubbs1


I have used LubeGard Blue Engine Oil Additive which is an ester based product and I could immediately tell a smoother ride in my Civic. I think LubeGard products in general are excellent and are used in some form by many BITOG members.


Their oil additive is excellent, as well as their transmission additives. IIRC Nano is a generic term that can be used for a few additives, Moly [the MoS2 version], and Ceramic additives use Nano particles, or small solid particles that are suspended into the oil. At least that is how it was explained to me by the people at Rosemill Industries. Maybe someone else can elaborate a bit more.

 

[nleksan]

From a biochemical engineering perspective, it could be done (feasibly) with technology available at many labs (at least a few dozen of the big players' labs), but since it has not yet been automated, it would take a long time and would not be cheap.
I do assume you are referring to nano engineering to mean making a substance that while appearing to be a liquid,.it is actually billions or trillions or more of tiny particles, microns or smaller, that are solid. Essentially, imagine an entire full-size.swimming pool were filled entirely with.BB's. They are solid, but they would actually be more "slippery" than water, and you would not be able to.propel yourself through them.

Now imagine that entire swimming poll and all the BB's are shrunk, to scale, so that it all fits in the palm of your hand. At that point the BB filled tube would appear to be filled with.liquid; its properties would be near identical.
The difference that is key is that while it may appear as a liquid, a solution of nanoengineered particles is a Solid, whereas traditional lubricants are liquid.

It could be done with carbon, i.e. Folded carbon nanotubes, but whatever it is done with I will tell you this:
It will be freaking expensive!

If you wanted 1gram of perfectly engineered 1micron carbon-nanotubes in a buckeyball shape, you are looking at five figures at the absolute minimum. Enough to lube an engine? There have not been that many made, ever, so you would have one of the best labs in the world working full time for years just so you can put fancy, now-$100mil+ oil in your car.

Also, reading Nissan's oil, it is not "nano-engineered", it simply contains esters that have a specific shape, but a natural one (i.e. They are not engineered).

 

[alternety]

Just passed by here looking for a nanolube vendor I had failed to bookmark. Reading the last post above I thought I would rattle the cage a bit.

I am not sure how the Carbon people are doing, but you can buy IF WS2 (Inorganic Fullerene like Tungsten Disulphide) here. It is mixed with a bit of mineral oil. Easier to handle this way. I personally am concerned with handling powders with < 80nm particles.

http://www.theoilhub.com/NanoLub?gclid=CMqVtO2L8rwCFc5efgodx40AZg

It contains "Bucky Balls" around 80nm. I don't believe they are made from nano-tubes. Try um, you will like them. Better lube than anything else. There is an extensive thread under additives on this board.

 

[MajorCavalry]

Check out the archoil.com website.

 

[JAG]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: chubbs1


I have used LubeGard Blue Engine Oil Additive which is an ester based product and I could immediately tell a smoother ride in my Civic. I think LubeGard products in general are excellent and are used in some form by many BITOG members.


Their oil additive is excellent, as well as their transmission additives. IIRC Nano is a generic term that can be used for a few additives, Moly [the MoS2 version], and Ceramic additives use Nano particles, or small solid particles that are suspended into the oil. At least that is how it was explained to me by the people at Rosemill Industries. Maybe someone else can elaborate a bit more.

A nanoparticle "is a microscopic particle with at least one dimension less than 100 nm."
Source: http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/n/nanoparticle.htm
A nanometer (1x10^-9 meters) is 1/1000 the size of a micron (1x10^-6 meters). The typical MoS2 particles are too large to be nanoparticles. They would have to be 1/10 of a micron or less in the smallest dimension.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: nleksan
From a biochemical engineering perspective, it could be done (feasibly) with technology available at many labs (at least a few dozen of the big players' labs), but since it has not yet been automated, it would take a long time and would not be cheap.
I do assume you are referring to nano engineering to mean making a substance that while appearing to be a liquid,.it is actually billions or trillions or more of tiny particles, microns or smaller, that are solid. Essentially, imagine an entire full-size.swimming pool were filled entirely with.BB's. They are solid, but they would actually be more "slippery" than water, and you would not be able to.propel yourself through them.

Now imagine that entire swimming poll and all the BB's are shrunk, to scale, so that it all fits in the palm of your hand. At that point the BB filled tube would appear to be filled with.liquid; its properties would be near identical.
The difference that is key is that while it may appear as a liquid, a solution of nanoengineered particles is a Solid, whereas traditional lubricants are liquid.

It could be done with carbon, i.e. Folded carbon nanotubes, but whatever it is done with I will tell you this:
It will be freaking expensive!

If you wanted 1gram of perfectly engineered 1micron carbon-nanotubes in a buckeyball shape, you are looking at five figures at the absolute minimum. Enough to lube an engine? There have not been that many made, ever, so you would have one of the best labs in the world working full time for years just so you can put fancy, now-$100mil+ oil in your car.

Also, reading Nissan's oil, it is not "nano-engineered", it simply contains esters that have a specific shape, but a natural one (i.e. They are not engineered).


Interesting explanation. If its accurate then I don't believe it could be explained in any simple terms.