N.A. Consumer Vehicle Choices

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: camryrolla
Driven by high gas price at around $6 per gallon, no wonder why Europe is driven by fuel economy at a detriment of safety. You cannot even find one regular-sized SUV, labeled in blue, in the Europe list as most on the list are sub-compacts. How much safety are they compromising by going the fuel-efficient sub-compact route?


Europeans embrace social manipulation through taxation, Americans do it through regulation. Once in a while both schemes backfire with some very strange results.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: Kawiguy454


I worked IT support in Miami and had a counterpart in Ireland that came to work on a project. Long story short. He was able to own an older BMW but not able to drive it to work daily as the gasoline taxes were so high that a gallon cost ~$11.

But over dinner and a pint the guy went on to say how much he loved the "System" as so many things there were free. He truly did not correlate his lack of basic choices to the economic weight of his societal norms.


But then our roads are "free" and if you chase the money actually subsidized quite a bit. No wonder they're full of traffic so often. I'm lucky in that having a pickup truck as a 2nd vehicle only costs me a couple hundred bucks a year in fixed costs (registration, insurance, inspection, parking.) I can then use it only when needed. Other states it could be a few grand, so people buy for the biggest thing they need all year then commute empty the rest of the time.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: Ducked
If you aren't busy, you might try a correlation analysis with some of the obesity/BMI data here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_body_mass_index

Don't want to pre-judge the sums, but the Japanese, for example, aren't very overweight, and they have a lot of very small Kei cars...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car





http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations


There's no such thing as a "spurious correlation". Variables are either correlated, or they aint.

Where the "spurious" comes in is with the assumption that correlation necessarily implies causality, but almost everyone (apart from Taiwanese academics in the social sciences, probably rare on BITOG) knows not to do that.

I dunno if the daft graphs are correlations, since no correlation analysis has been done, but, for example, its quite likely that consumption/production of any two commodities, such as cheese or doctorates, is going to be correlated, since they are both products of an expanding global economy and population.

Nicholas Cage films and death by drowning might, OTOH, seem a bit of a stretch, unless you'd seen some of Nicholas Cages films.

Here's what a correlation looks like

 

[Y_K]

Originally Posted By: Ducked
Here's what a correlation looks like

How do you reconcile the huge deviations there? Aside from an ideology, of course

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted by hpb
I think it's just conditioning, and it appears most Americans are conditioned to want "big" vehicles.


That is just not so.

We don't tax fuel excessively, nor do we tax large vehicles excessively.

The result is that consumers can purchase what suits their needs. You'll find that Dads choose larger vehicles for work reasons, or to carry a family on a trip. A VW Golf and a 5 person American family trip don't mix at all. It's either take 2 cars (like our European friends do) or purchase the right vehicle for the job.

Moms take kids to school. Putting a car seat and 3 kids, along with sports gear in the Golf is a royal pain. And it occupies otherwise valuable space. Moms universally choose SUV's here, for practical reasons. They are the right vehicle for the job.

Here, people purchase what they want, without being "volunteered" by fees and taxation into something specific.

 

[hpb]

Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by hpb
I think it's just conditioning, and it appears most Americans are conditioned to want "big" vehicles.


That is just not so.

We don't tax fuel excessively, nor do we tax large vehicles excessively.

The result is that consumers can purchase what suits their needs. You'll find that Dads choose larger vehicles for work reasons, or to carry a family on a trip. A VW Golf and a 5 person American family trip don't mix at all. It's either take 2 cars (like our European friends do) or purchase the right vehicle for the job.

Moms take kids to school. Putting a car seat and 3 kids, along with sports gear in the Golf is a royal pain. And it occupies otherwise valuable space. Moms universally choose SUV's here, for practical reasons. They are the right vehicle for the job.

Here, people purchase what they want, without being "volunteered" by fees and taxation into something specific.


I feel like you misunderstood what I meant, but following on from your post, I would imagine those same kids who grew up being ferried around in the big SUV would then want that same type of vehicle for themselves? That was what I was getting at.

Choice is good. We have it here, too.

 

[Silk]

There were 10 in my wife's family, they all fitted in the MkI Ford Cortina. My Uncle had an E93A Ford Prefect, 2 adults and us 7 cousins. Bigger families usually had a larger American car.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted by Y_K
Originally Posted by Ducked
Here's what a correlation looks like

How do you reconcile the huge deviations there? Aside from an ideology, of course


Eh?

Deviations from the regression line are of course to be expected in any regression, and don't need "reconciled". It is what it is.

This particular one relates to complex systems in which there are clealy lots of factors operating.

I don't understand the "Aside from an ideology, of course." bit at all.

How could "an ideology" explain deviations from a regression line?

(If there's only one ideology it isn't even a variable.)

 

[ndfergy]

Originally Posted by Cujet


The result is that consumers can purchase what suits their needs. You'll find that Dads choose larger vehicles for work reasons, or to carry a family on a trip. A VW Golf and a 5 person American family trip don't mix at all. It's either take 2 cars (like our European friends do) or purchase the right vehicle for the job.

Moms take kids to school. Putting a car seat and 3 kids, along with sports gear in the Golf is a royal pain. And it occupies otherwise valuable space. Moms universally choose SUV's here, for practical reasons. They are the right vehicle for the job.

Here, people purchase what they want, without being "volunteered" by fees and taxation into something specific.


Fair comment so I thought I'd crunch some numbers.

No. of families with three children under eighteen: 6.76 mil.
No. of registered boats between 16-26': 6.25 mil.
No. of households with RV'S: 8.9 mil.

Occupation:

Farming, fishing and forestry: 2.28 mil.
Parks and recreation (lifeguards definitely need one): 0.390 mil.
Electricians: 0.666 mil.
Plumbers & pipefitters: 0.48 mil.
Welders: 0.4 mil.
Roofers: 0.146 mil.
Land & grounds keeping: 1.2 mil.
HVAC: 0.178 mil.
Carpenters: 1.02 mil.
Masonry: 0.292 mil.
Painters: .381 mil.
Dry Wallers: 0.143 mil.
Construction/extraction (some overlap with other listed trades but what the hey): 6.65 mil.

Total= 36.136 million

Divide that by the number of licensed drivers in USA: 222 mil.

= 16.277%

Now, as you can see I've made a massively overstated, zero overlap leap with the above percentage. I've assumed a statistical improbability as a worst case scenario: every one of those above workers drive and must have a LT/SUV; every one of those boat and RV owners own either one or the other and do not have the occupation listed or more than 3 kids.

So there you have it. What am I missing that accounts for the high LT/SUV sales percentage? Sure, there's some occupations I've missed but how much do they push the bar?

The back seat of my previous car, Scion xb, was huge with plenty of leg and head room to put in a car seat. It weighed just over 3000 lb. The Subaru forester likely is similar, if not bigger.

The bottom line, if the percentage was even 20% of all new car sales of LT/SUV's I wouldn't even be having this conversation - freedom of choice and all that stuff that I believe in. Unfortunately, I think it's getting out of hand.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Choice is good. What we do not need is someone deciding arbitrarily for all of us, no matter how they "feel".

Frankly feelings matter little and are part of the broader societal problem we have with anyone who decides their feelings are impacted deserves immediate action to stop that!

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
Choice is good. What we do not need is someone deciding arbitrarily for all of us, no matter how they "feel".

Frankly feelings matter little and are part of the broader societal problem we have with anyone who decides their feelings are impacted deserves immediate action to stop that!





Spot on. Everyone and every household has their own unique circumstances. Freedom of choice is good.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
Choice is good. What we do not need is someone deciding arbitrarily for all of us, no matter how they "feel".

Frankly feelings matter little and are part of the broader societal problem we have with anyone who decides their feelings are impacted deserves immediate action to stop that!





Spot on. Everyone and every household has their own unique circumstances. Freedom of choice is good.



Could not agree more. Of course, those that set themselves oit on some sort of crusade always think they know what's best, their choices are good and their intentions are selfless. It oftentimes starts as a selfless act, but the history is more than enoigh proof that it almost always ends up being a selfish act.

 

[ndfergy]

Originally Posted by Ducked
If you aren't busy, you might try a correlation analysis with some of the obesity/BMI data here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_body_mass_index

Don't want to pre-judge the sums, but the Japanese, for example, aren't very overweight, and they have a lot of very small Kei cars...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car



OK, Ducked, I initially dismissed your post but you may be on to something. The obesity rate sits at 39.6% for Americans over 20, according to CDC's 2016 study. Although that figure is mind blowing, Canada has nothing to be proud of either with a StatsCan 2014 report that 20.2% of Canadians over the age of 18 are also obese. Therefore, I can empathize with the ingress/egress issues a small car with a lower ride height might present, especially in a tight parking spaces.

Are Americans Too Big To Drive Small?

 

[Rmay635703]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
Choice is good. What we do not need is someone deciding arbitrarily for all of us, no matter how they "feel".

Frankly feelings matter little and are part of the broader societal problem we have with anyone who decides their feelings are impacted deserves immediate action to stop that!





Spot on. Everyone and every household has their own unique circumstances. Freedom of choice is good.

Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
Choice is good. What we do not need is someone deciding arbitrarily for all of us, no matter how they "feel".

Frankly feelings matter little and are part of the broader societal problem we have with anyone who decides their feelings are impacted deserves immediate action to stop that!





Spot on. Everyone and every household has their own unique circumstances. Freedom of choice is good.



Could not agree more. Of course, those that set themselves oit on some sort of crusade always think they know what's best, their choices are good and their intentions are selfless. It oftentimes starts as a selfless act, but the history is more than enoigh proof that it almost always ends up being a selfish act.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ar...possible-says-leading-hedge-fund-manager

Meh, subsidizing half the fuel cost so folks can afford to put one person in large vehicles that clog highways, wear roads and then drive an automotive loan crisis from folks buying more than they can afford
after the fuel prices go up from expanding demand .

Nice system, I bet nothing like 2008 would ever happen again, folks were pulling Honda Insights out of the junkyard and truck resale tanked
we will forever have unlimited fuel and it will never go up in price.

Don't get me wrong, the trucks yearly registration is 25% cheaper than a car and insurance is $80 a year which is nice for the 500 miles a year I pull
but I think we are all kidding ourselves trying to push pickups by subsidizing the [censored] things.

And why do modern trucks still get terrible MPGs?
my 82 Diesel suburban with 2wd and a 5 speed stick could get nearly 30mpg at 55mph if I didn't have a trailer.
Seems like we should be able to do better

 

[Ducked]

...but he's afraid to ask.

 

[Andrew1972]

The missing piece on those pickup trucks is a large percentage of sales is commercial and fleet not personal use like the balance of vehicles shown.

 

[Y_K]

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
Choice is good. What we do not need is someone deciding arbitrarily for all of us, no matter how they "feel".

Frankly feelings matter little and are part of the broader societal problem we have with anyone who decides their feelings are impacted deserves immediate action to stop that!


Precisely.
And I would also propose that both state and federal legislators be required to repeal at least ten laws for every law that they enact..

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
Choice is good. What we do not need is someone deciding arbitrarily for all of us, no matter how they "feel".

Frankly feelings matter little and are part of the broader societal problem we have with anyone who decides their feelings are impacted deserves immediate action to stop that!





Spot on. Everyone and every household has their own unique circumstances. Freedom of choice is good.





Amen guys...

Great posts there.