My last Intel Mac finally died and the M chips really are superior

[PWMDMD]

I'm a Mac guy at home and work - it's just what I'm used to using. My practice software at work is Windows only and so I run Windows 11 through Parallels there and it has really been a good experience. This last Intel Mac was a 2018 Mac Mini with 32GB of aftermarket RAM. I had been using this 4 days per week for 6 years and for whatever reason the practice software on Parallels caused the fan to windup like a jet engine and the CPU/GPU sat at +200F all day, every day, during use. A couple of months ago, I retired this Mac Mini from work out of fear that at 6 years old and +200F it would soon give out and that would be a huge bummer for my work day. I brought it home and it became the kitchen internet computer. Today I walked in to find it off and it would not start back up. I replaced it with an M2 Mac Mini.

I replaced the work Mac with an M2 Mac Mini with 16GGB RAM and with the exact same workload, it averages 98F and the fan remains off. I will say the 6-year-old Intel Mac Mini was still really fast with none of the age-related slowdown I've encountered in the past but man, you could cook an egg on it all day long. For anyone who needs a new computer and likes or wants to try a Mac, these Apple-designed M chips are the real deal and their performance to energy consumption is phenomenal. My hope is with so little heat being produced, these last well past 6 years. I have a couple-year-old M1 PowerBook Pro that has been flawless and again it runs so cool you don't even know it's on.

 

[hemioiler]

I received a macbook pro 16" m3 through work, and it absolutely crushes my older AMD Ryzen 1700 system. Code that takes 7:30 mins to compile on the AMD takes 1:45 on the mac. I have a SATA SSD on my AMD system with same amount of ram, but the combination of memory speed, chip speed, bus speed etc, there is just no comparison.

And the mac stays cool, if I feel my palms heating up I know I have a stray process running rampant that needs to be killed off lol. Battery life is insane. The trackpad is luxurious, large and "clicky" everywhere including the very top of the pad which other laptops still can't figure out (because the mac's trackpad is a fake click, it uses haptic feedback to pretend you're clicking so there is no physical movement/hinge). Keyboard is pretty good, lenovo's thinkpad is still superior but I'm not complaining about the keyboard other than they made the cardinal sin of putting the function key in the very bottom left corner instead of the control key. That is unforgivable, I've walked away from laptops in the past just for this very reason but didn't have a choice this time, it's what I was given.

But OSx. Mother of mercy, I wish I could run KDE on this thing. Little nits that add up to a terrible experience - like the dock not supporting "ungroup windows", heck I'll even take a toggle show/hide window when clicking the icon but nope, you just get "show window" all by itself. The file manager doesn't understand the concept of SFTP. There is no global font dpi setting so you have to go adjust the font size in every program you use because staring at 16 inches with a super high resolution means everything is tiny, and adjusting the resolution down makes fonts larger but also blurry (whereas keeping the high resolution and increasing the font size they remain crisp). But of course not every program has adjustable font size so you still get some programs that are tiny and wretched to look at. I've had to download hacky bits of software to add in some basic features like "alt + right click = resize quadrant", something for tiling windows .... and on and on. Sad that a bunch of guys working for free can put out a much better user interface (KDE).

Is this the best user experience the almighty Apple can do with billions in the bank?? Completely unimpressed.

The hardware though, that's some pretty decent stuff!

 

[PWMDMD]

I received a macbook pro 16" m3 through work, and it absolutely crushes my older AMD Ryzen 1700 system. Code that takes 7:30 mins to compile on the AMD takes 1:45 on the mac. I have a SATA SSD on my AMD system with same amount of ram, but the combination of memory speed, chip speed, bus speed etc, there is just no comparison.

And the mac stays cool, if I feel my palms heating up I know I have a stray process running rampant that needs to be killed off lol. Battery life is insane. The trackpad is luxurious, large and "clicky" everywhere including the very top of the pad which other laptops still can't figure out (because the mac's trackpad is a fake click, it uses haptic feedback to pretend you're clicking so there is no physical movement/hinge). Keyboard is pretty good, lenovo's thinkpad is still superior but I'm not complaining about the keyboard other than they made the cardinal sin of putting the function key in the very bottom left corner instead of the control key. That is unforgivable, I've walked away from laptops in the past just for this very reason but didn't have a choice this time, it's what I was given.

But OSx. Mother of mercy, I wish I could run KDE on this thing. Little nits that add up to a terrible experience - like the dock not supporting "ungroup windows", heck I'll even take a toggle show/hide window when clicking the icon but nope, you just get "show window" all by itself. The file manager doesn't understand the concept of SFTP. There is no global font dpi setting so you have to go adjust the font size in every program you use because staring at 16 inches with a super high resolution means everything is tiny, and adjusting the resolution down makes fonts larger but also blurry (whereas keeping the high resolution and increasing the font size they remain crisp). But of course not every program has adjustable font size so you still get some programs that are tiny and wretched to look at. I've had to download hacky bits of software to add in some basic features like "alt + right click = resize quadrant", something for tiling windows .... and on and on. Sad that a bunch of guys working for free can put out a much better user interface (KDE).

Is this the best user experience the almighty Apple can do with billions in the bank?? Completely unimpressed.

The hardware though, that's some pretty decent stuff!

I've come to just accept MacOS and while I have a familiarity with it, no real love beyond that. These SOCs really are something phenomenal. I have a friend who just updated a 2016 Intel iMac with older platter-style HD and it was taking 20 bounces to open an app. Now everything is basically instantaneous and he can't believe how much of his life he wasted waiting for that Intel iMac.

 

[SupremePossum]

Yeah, I kind of made a risky purchase and got the M1 Macbook Pro when it first came out in 2020, and 4+ years later, I have no desire for a new laptop whatsoever. I still have never heard the fan in this laptop, even though it has one

 

[PWMDMD]

Yeah, I kind of made a risky purchase and got the M1 Macbook Pro when it first came out in 2020, and 4+ years later, I have no desire for a new laptop whatsoever. I still have never heard the fan in this laptop, even though it has one

That was my first M purchase and it was also the 2020 and yeah it runs like new. I have it running a 34" curved monitor with it shut closed to be a desktop computer and even running that screen high res the fan never comes on and it's flawless.

 

[hemioiler]

I've come to just accept MacOS and while I have a familiarity with it, no real love beyond that. These SOCs really are something phenomenal. I have a friend who just updated a 2016 Intel iMac with older platter-style HD and it was taking 20 bounces to open an app. Now everything is basically instantaneous and he can't believe how much of his life he wasted waiting for that Intel iMac.

I've installed debian 12 inside vmware player for some server side stuff I'm working on, thought about just using that permanently for all my work but haven't quite given up on osx yet. Just coming from a linux guy who started using it exclusively back in 2002, osx is quite frustrating at times. KDE has warts too, perhaps I'm just more familiar with them and the workarounds but still, there is no excuse for most of the frustrations I've experienced considering their bank account and the amount of experience and polish they put into other areas. Some of their other apps are quite nice, like the calendar for example.

 

[alarmguy]

We have a Mac mini M1 and Mac mini i5 2018 & later versions.
I dont notice heat from the i5 but then again, never thought to check the M1... Have the i5 on right now, just warm on top no fan that I can feel. the things are so quiet you have to reach around to see if you can feel air blowing. No open apps other than Safari.
Dont really do anything heavy with them though, also have an M1 laptop, that amazes me, no fan and doesnt get hot. Call me crazy, but after using Windows computers since 1995 the Macs are just so stupid simple and all I need, maybe boring because they always just work *LOL*

 

[SupremePossum]

MacOS would be perfect if they just fixed SMB

 

[Carmudgeon]

You're probably aware that Intel just announced that they're canning 15,000 people, so they can save $10B in spending, no? Their comeback plan isn't working, or working as fast as they anticipated. The guy leading the charge is fiery, but regardless of what happens, probably has a nice golden parachute.

They were never really good at anything except making x86 processors, with failure upon failure in their other attempts at diversifying.

They once had the most advanced fabs, but those now reside in a disputed small island country, utilizing machines from the Netherlands.

Bagging Apple as a customer was a good "get," but it finally decided to stop putting its fate in the hands of others, and use the means/wherewithal it had to make its own chips, so Intel was no longer needed. Even better, it can amortize those costs over its entire product range.

Even its long-time partner in crime, MS, is making strides moving Windows away from x86.

One rival, AMD, was one of the leaders in GFX, something else Intel never did well, and came back to offer some really attractive alternatives to Intel's iron.

AMD's rival, Nvidia, now helps lead the charge for chips tailored for AI.

What can Intel look forward to, and try to stop its long, slow decline (which should be a lot more concerning to its home state, versus losing a couple thousand admin jobs and a title change that were part of a long-gestating shift anyway).

Qualcomm might reach the point where they can match, if not surpass the M series, but isn't there yet.

 

[wavinwayne]

I've had an M1 Air 13" for a few years now. It runs like a champ, is completely silent and never gets more than slightly warm. I love it!!

 

[alarmguy]

I've had an M1 Air 13" for a few years now. It runs like a champ, is completely silent and never gets more than slightly warm. I love it!!

Yup, same here, still amazes me.

 

[OVERKILL]

You're probably aware that Intel just announced that they're canning 15,000 people, so they can save $10B in spending, no? Their comeback plan isn't working, or working as fast as they anticipated. The guy leading the charge is fiery, but regardless of what happens, probably has a nice golden parachute.

They were never really good at anything except making x86 processors, with failure upon failure in their other attempts at diversifying.

Remember the i740 GPU? LOL!

Intel's recent integrated efforts haven't been too bad, and their communication IC's are popular.

The real egg on their face right now is this recent issue of high end CPU's cooking themselves.

They once had the most advanced fabs, but those now reside in a disputed small island country, utilizing machines from the Netherlands.

Bagging Apple as a customer was a good "get," but it finally decided to stop putting its fate in the hands of others, and use the means/wherewithal it had to make its own chips, so Intel was no longer needed. Even better, it can amortize those costs over its entire product range.

Well, Apple really isn't "making" the chips, they are designing them, but they are manufactured by TSMC.

My understanding of the transition is that iOS and MacOS have been getting closer together for years, as the ARM architecture processors got more capable and the devices they were installed in got more storage. This presented an opportunity to completely merge the codebase by transitioning to a common architecture, which clearly wouldn't be x86 due to the Mobile side of things, which meant ARM.

Apple had been working closely with Samsung for more than a decade on ARM stuff, so them forging ahead on this was not completely unexpected.

As an owner of a very legacy Mac Pro (5,1) this impact started after Monterey. Intel support will eventually be phased out of the code base, just like PowerPC support was with OS X.

Even its long-time partner in crime, MS, is making strides moving Windows away from x86.

That's debatable at this juncture i think. x86 is still the largest install base for Windows and while Microsoft does have an ARM version of Windows 11, not everything works properly. Microsoft has supported most major architectures over the years from PowerPC, Alpha (RISC), MIPS, x86, x86-64, IA64...etc. So I don't think Microsoft coming out with an ARM version of Windows is necessarily a death knell for x86, at least not at this point. The next few years will tell us more IMHO. I do know that Microsoft has partnered with Intel to produce their own chip but that may not be a laptop CPU, it could be something for their AI datacentre stuff, as, AFAIK, no details have been released as of yet. Would be interesting if it's an ARM CPU though, lol.

One rival, AMD, was one of the leaders in GFX, something else Intel never did well, and came back to offer some really attractive alternatives to Intel's iron.

Not quite AMD, the CPU company, merged with the Canadian company ATI, the graphics company, which is how they got into the graphics business. Prior to the merger with ATI they were a CPU company that used to make other IC's as well (I have an AMD network card here somewhere) but really only got somewhere with their CPU business.

Intel made some noise about buying NVIDIA, but NVIDIA shot that down, they wouldn't sell to Intel (though, IIRC there were some angry words from the NVIDIA CEO at the time, as Intel's idea of valuation was not in-line with his own).

AMD's rival, Nvidia, now helps lead the charge for chips tailored for AI.

Yes, and what's really weird is that apparently Intel may be manufacturing the ARM-based CPU's for NVIDIA!

What can Intel look forward to, and try to stop its long, slow decline (which should be a lot more concerning to its home state, versus losing a couple thousand admin jobs and a title change that were part of a long-gestating shift anyway).

Well, lots of taxpayer money (Chips Act) and apparently potentially doing the TSMC thing, doing fab work for others. I'm still reasonably bullish on Intel at this point.

Qualcomm might reach the point where they can match, if not surpass the M series, but isn't there yet.

Yes, that would be interesting to see! Another option in the ARM space. I'm also excited to see what NVIDIA comes out with.

 

[bunnspecial]

The biggest issue with the M series chips is that Apple still puts 8gb RAM in a lot of the base models.

Other than that, my M1 MBP bought in February 2021 is still going strong, now as my wife's computer. My 16" M1 Max(32gb) bought refurbed in February of this year just absolutely rocks-it's amazing that for a computer as capable as it is, the battery still manages to last all day. I couldn't be happier, and it is actually a viable desktop replacement in a lot of cases, unlike my M1. It's amazing to me too how cool they run.

I do still have my 2019 iMac, 8 core CPU and loaded up with RAM and storage. I've been really happy with it and it's still doing its job perfectly, although at times I still think about replacing it with a Studio and pair of 5K Studio displays. Still, though, I run a few versions of Windows along with OS X 10.6.8 through VMWare for specific software, and I don't think VMWare is quite there yet on getting Windows really working well, much less older versions of OS X, on ARM.

 

[Carmudgeon]

Remember the i740 GPU? LOL!

Intel's recent integrated efforts haven't been too bad, and their communication IC's are popular.

Yeah, there are parts of the company that do ok, like the networking stuff, but they're not the main course, so to speak.

The old (Infineon) cellular modem division was sold to Apple, and has yet to ship a product since taken in house.

After their court battle with Qualcomm, it must have been a rare bitter pill to surrender, hand over a large sum, and continue to put their modems in iPhones. More so when QC isn't well-loved by others either.

The real egg on their face right now is this recent issue of high end CPU's cooking themselves.

Well, Apple really isn't "making" the chips, they are designing them, but they are manufactured by TSMC.

My understanding of the transition is that iOS and MacOS have been getting closer together for years, as the ARM architecture processors got more capable and the devices they were installed in got more storage. This presented an opportunity to completely merge the codebase by transitioning to a common architecture, which clearly wouldn't be x86 due to the Mobile side of things, which meant ARM.

Apple had been working closely with Samsung for more than a decade on ARM stuff, so them forging ahead on this was not completely unexpected.

As an owner of a very legacy Mac Pro (5,1) this impact started after Monterey. Intel support will eventually be phased out of the code base, just like PowerPC support was with OS X.

Well AMD and Nvidia are also fabless, among others, and also rely on TSMC. But you get the drift.

Apple has proven itself adept at major architectural shifts, and will do what is necessary to meet its goals. After seeing Motorola hit a wall, then IBM lose interest, and then Intel as well, a company that has traditionally made the "whole" widget knew it had to take that path with processors as well. Especially when power efficiency, which has long been a priority for them, is not one of Intel's strengths.

That's debatable at this juncture i think. x86 is still the largest install base for Windows and while Microsoft does have an ARM version of Windows 11, not everything works properly. Microsoft has supported most major architectures over the years from PowerPC, Alpha (RISC), MIPS, x86, x86-64, IA64...etc. So I don't think Microsoft coming out with an ARM version of Windows is necessarily a death knell for x86, at least not at this point. The next few years will tell us more IMHO. I do know that Microsoft has partnered with Intel to produce their own chip but that may not be a laptop CPU, it could be something for their AI datacentre stuff, as, AFAIK, no details have been released as of yet. Would be interesting if it's an ARM CPU though, lol.

Wintel is a big ship, and won't turn on a dime, but they're not joined at the hip like in the past. And MS is smart enough to hedge its bets.

Well, lots of taxpayer money (Chips Act) and apparently potentially doing the TSMC thing, doing fab work for others. I'm still reasonably bullish on Intel at this point.

Yes, that would be interesting to see! Another option in the ARM space. I'm also excited to see what NVIDIA comes out with.

They still need to prove it. Not rooting against them, especially given the delicate situation TSMC is in, but we shall see.

 

[Pew]

Especially when power efficiency, which has long been a priority for them, is not one of Intel's strengths.

Hey now, what's wrong with having a second heater during the winter?

 

[Brons2]

Intel is not standing still on these issues. Comparing a 6 year old Intel proc to a new ARM based proc is like apples and oranges.

I have a 12th gen i7 in a Dell Precision 3570 and it's a way different beast than any other Intel processor I've ever had before. It's 10 cores but the first two are performance cores and the rest are efficient cores. I had a Precision 3560 before with a 10th gen 4 core i7 and it was running the fan on high all the time with my work tasks and running hot all the time. This 3570, the fan almost never comes on and the bottom of the machine is cool to the touch, even running 2 VMs and doing computational heavy tasks on the host OS. The first time I ever heard the fan come on high was yesterday when I was working from the neighborhood pool (last day before school started and kid driving me nuts at home). Outside ambient was 98F, so I think you can excuse the laptop for having to turn the fan on high.

 

[Brons2]

Qualcomm might reach the point where they can match, if not surpass the M series, but isn't there yet.

I tried a Snapdragon X Elite Windows laptop at Costco over the weekend, it's a major step forward for Qualcomm. For your run of the mill user who doesn't run specialized software and wants long battery life, it should definitely be considered. The only downside was the cost, it was on a pretty expensive laptop that was $1299. But if one was already going to spend that kind of money on an Intel or AMD laptop, it definitely should be considered.

 

[JHZR2]

I still run core2duo intel mbp with parallels and windows 7 in the off case I need Windows for something.

Heck, I still have a powerPC original Mac mini that works great that I use for archiving stuff.

I’ll move to the M processors when I need to. But currently my i7 MBP and my wife’s newer i5 MBA work just fine, including large format digital photo processing.