My first oil change on Ultra.

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
G-MAn, this is what I got when I cut open the PL10111 that I had sitting on the shelf (thread end down) for about 4 months.

snip

And there was still a LOT more that you don't see in this picture.


And, as I said earlier: "Granted, the saturated media may keep some oil in the can..."


No offense, but the media is NOT going to hold that much in, that will instantaneously "come out" of the media when I cut the can open.

 

[Warstud]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
G-MAn, this is what I got when I cut open the PL10111 that I had sitting on the shelf (thread end down) for about 4 months.

snip

And there was still a LOT more that you don't see in this picture.


And, as I said earlier: "Granted, the saturated media may keep some oil in the can..."


And, as I said earlier " The oil is trapped between the plugged filter media and the ADBV" END OF DISCUSSION.

 

[postjeeprcr]

Originally Posted By: Hemi426
Forget I even brought it up. It's like dealing with children who think they are experts on every subject.


Sadly I am not surprised this thread became like it did. Happens on here all the time.

 

[D Bone]

I think the filter was full of wax. After all, he used Pennzoil Platinum, which was so inferior at keeping an engine clean, that its maker had to invent a new oil to clean all of the waxed engines out.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: cruisertech
But it seems to me that the crankshaft galley's do not stay completely full of oil when the engine is off.So this being the case what purpose would or could an ADBV serve.In other words if an ADBV cannot hold oil in the filter (between media and can)what good would it be period?Some Mercruiser poweredboats use remote mounted filters with the baseplate down.These filters are mounted high on engine for easy access.If the ADBV didnt hold oil in these filters It would take to long to fill the filter and hoses on start up.Er maybe I,m missing something.


Your not missing anything ... you understand that if an ADBV works as intended, there will always be some oil trapped in the space between the element and the can ... even if the filter is mounted base down and the highest point in the oiling system.

Obviously, when people leave a filter draining base down for 4 months and then cut it open to have it puke oil all over the place, the ADBV did it's job as intended.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
G-MAn, this is what I got when I cut open the PL10111 that I had sitting on the shelf (thread end down) for about 4 months.

snip

And there was still a LOT more that you don't see in this picture.


And, as I said earlier: "Granted, the saturated media may keep some oil in the can..."


All that oil that pukes out was not oil that was saturated in the media. Saturated means the oil is impregnated in the media and will not leave the media (ie, puke all over the place).

If the only oil left in a filter after draining for 4 months with the base down was saturated oil in the media, there would be zero oil puking out when the filter was cut open. There would only be a thin film of oil all over the inside of the filter, and the only way you could get saturated oil out of the media is if you squeezed it ... similar to how a sponge gets "saturated".

Put a sponge in a bucket of water. Remove the sponge and let the excess water drain out of it until it no longer drips. From that point on, water is never removed from the sponge unless the sponge is squeezed - it doesn't magically puke more water. Same exact analogy with saturated filter media.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: Warstud
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
G-MAn, this is what I got when I cut open the PL10111 that I had sitting on the shelf (thread end down) for about 4 months.

snip

And there was still a LOT more that you don't see in this picture.


And, as I said earlier: "Granted, the saturated media may keep some oil in the can..."


And, as I said earlier " The oil is trapped between the plugged filter media and the ADBV" END OF DISCUSSION.


The media is not plugged. Take a brand new filter, fill it with oil until it will no longer take any more ... ensuring the whole inner volume is filled and saturate.

Drain the filter base down for a few weeks, and then cut it open to see how much oil remains in the space between the can and media due to a good sealing ADBV.

 

[Sayjac]

Good pic of the cut open used P1. That has been my experience with most any filter, even ones with nitrile adbv's that have drained base down for some time. Takes some tap holes to get the rest of the oil out before cutting it open.

 

[NightRiderQ45]

Originally Posted By: Hemi426
Let's see? I can spend $32 on a UOA that's going to tell me that my engine is doing fine(which I already know) or I could spend the same amount and buy the materials for another oil change. Now what do you think the answer's going to be?

Exactly!!!!!!! I don't understand the point of a UOA unless to come on here and brag about it. People outside of this site really don't care about wasting money on this(like me). I have 223k on my motor and transmission...I definitely don't need a UOA to tell me that what I've been doing all of these years is RIGHT!

 

[G-MAN]

For the oil to be "trapped" in the space between the media and the can, there has to be two "traps": one is the ADBV, which keeps the oil from flowing back out the inlet holes. So please explain to me how or why the media is acting as the other "trap" and keeping the oil from passing through the media and out the center hole?

As I said before, the saturated media will keep some oil in the can, but it's not going to keep the can full of oil in the space between the media and the can, unless it is completely plugged--which is highly unlikely in a 4000 mile OCI.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
For the oil to be "trapped" in the space between the media and the can, there has to be two "traps": one is the ADBV, which keeps the oil from flowing back out the inlet holes. So please explain to me how or why the media is acting as the other "trap" and keeping the oil from passing through the media and out the center hole?

As I said before, the saturated media will keep some oil in the can, but it's not going to keep the can full of oil in the space between the media and the can, unless it is completely plugged--which is highly unlikely in a 4000 mile OCI.


The nmedia is not free flowing. You need PRESSURE to push oil through it. The oil in that filter was 10W-40, not the thickest, but definitely not the thinnest either. The filter element is not like a piece of tissue, it is very solid, sturdy cellulose, that will not let anything through it, it has to be pushed via oil pressure.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
For the oil to be "trapped" in the space between the media and the can, there has to be two "traps": one is the ADBV, which keeps the oil from flowing back out the inlet holes. So please explain to me how or why the media is acting as the other "trap" and keeping the oil from passing through the media and out the center hole?

As I said before, the saturated media will keep some oil in the can, but it's not going to keep the can full of oil in the space between the media and the can, unless it is completely plugged--which is highly unlikely in a 4000 mile OCI.


The nmedia is not free flowing. You need PRESSURE to push oil through it. The oil in that filter was 10W-40, not the thickest, but definitely not the thinnest either. The filter element is not like a piece of tissue, it is very solid, sturdy cellulose, that will not let anything through it, it has to be pushed via oil pressure.


The media is not solid, it's porous--which is why oil can flow through it. And if you think oil won't go through it unless it's "pushed," you're wrong. You can, with patience, completely fill a brand new filter by pouring oil into the center hole. The only "pressure" needed is gravity and standard atmospheric pressure.

 

[mechanicx]

Actually I've found it hard to completely fill a even a new filter with new oil through the center tube. For one thing it fills very slowly, and if you are filling strictly through the center tube air pressure developing tends to close the ADBV. What a lot of people prefilling filter are usually doing is dumping oil over the ADBV and center tube. Anyway a used filter may only partially drain out through the media. Once the used filter is loaded it may take a partial psid for most all of the oil to flow out through the media. It might not be much need ~1 psid, but it's some that isn't there.

The media is porous, but very small pores and oil has some visosity and the used filter is saturated with oil and contamininates.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
For the oil to be "trapped" in the space between the media and the can, there has to be two "traps": one is the ADBV, which keeps the oil from flowing back out the inlet holes. So please explain to me how or why the media is acting as the other "trap" and keeping the oil from passing through the media and out the center hole?


Surface tension & viscosity ... all fluids have it. Apparently gravity is not a big enough driving force to overcome the surface tension and make the oil bleed through the media through and out the center core. If the media was very open and porous then it probably would, but most filters have a relatively dense media.

Next time you change a filter, fill it all the way back up with the used oil, then drain it base down for a week or two and then cut it open. See what you get.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN

The media is not solid, it's porous--which is why oil can flow through it. And if you think oil won't go through it unless it's "pushed," you're wrong. You can, with patience, completely fill a brand new filter by pouring oil into the center hole. The only "pressure" needed is gravity and standard atmospheric pressure.


That is true, and I've filled bone dry filter with oil before. It takes a few minutes, but it works.

I think once the filter is filled, and then drained base down, there is less than atmospheric pressure in the space between the can and the media. Call it a slight vacuum.

I've owned a few cars that have the oil filter mounted almost vertical with base down - my 2005 Tacoma I have now is like that.

The only way I can make the filter drain fully before removing it is to punch a hole in the top so the atmospheric pressure can get to the volume between the can and media. If I don't punch a whole in the top of the filter I get a HUGE oil puking mess when the filter is removed - even if I let the oil pan drain overnight before removing the oil filter.

Same deal when you drain a filled filter base down in the garage. Take two identical filters and fill them both to the top, the drain base down. Punch a hole in the top of one but not the other. Drain a week or two, then cut both open. The one without the hole punch will have more oil inside.

 

[Warstud]

Well I changed the oil out in the Blazer friday and left the filter sitting upside down in the recycle container up until today (Sunday). More than enough time for the oil to completely drain from the outlet side. I then took a hammer and nail and punched a hole in the bottom corner and turned it upright and more oil came out.

My Thoughts: Same as my first post on the topic " Filter is plugged up.... not allowing oil to penetrate the filter to the outlet side". But NOT completely plugged up to go into bypass mode but needing pressure from the oil pump to force it thru.

 

[SuperBusa]

Cut the filter open, and cut the media out and lay it all out flat ... I bet there is hardly and debris in trapped in the media.