My engine warm-up may be insufficient

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Originally Posted By: AEHaas
There are studies that show it takes up to 90 seconds to get oil to the top end at 75F. Hence my constant battle to get the start up viscosity down, even at 75F. It is a function of viscosity and the bypass spring at the oil filter.

aehaas


On what engines?

Anyone who's lashed rockers with the engine running knows this isn't true. It take a few seconds.

Heck, I've primed engines (sbc/bbc)with a hand drill and it only took 10-15 seconds to get oil up to the rockers. And a hand drill doesn't spin the pump nearly as fast as an idling engine.
 
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I know my warm-up IS sufficient. I have a 40 mile highway commute to work every day, 80 miles round-trip. My oil gets good and hot for an hour every day.
 
Originally Posted By: AEHaas
There are studies that show it takes up to 90 seconds to get oil to the top end at 75F. Hence my constant battle to get the start up viscosity down, even at 75F. It is a function of viscosity and the bypass spring at the oil filter.

aehaas
Doc Haas you are reading these studies and not being able to discern fact from fiction. There are so many people reading your posts and actually believing what you post.
 
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: AEHaas
There are studies that show it takes up to 90 seconds to get oil to the top end at 75F. Hence my constant battle to get the start up viscosity down, even at 75F. It is a function of viscosity and the bypass spring at the oil filter.

aehaas


On what engines?

Anyone who's lashed rockers with the engine running knows this isn't true. It take a few seconds.

Heck, I've primed engines (sbc/bbc)with a hand drill and it only took 10-15 seconds to get oil up to the rockers. And a hand drill doesn't spin the pump nearly as fast as an idling engine.
+1 There are the people that know and then the people that think they know!!!. I have noticed the same on every engine I have adjusted the valves on.
 
Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
It doesn't take 90 seconds for a Windsor to get oil flowing out the rockers. It takes literally a couple of seconds. It is almost instant. I've owned a few of them.

Check on a cold morning when you first start it, it takes awhile, I've owned my share as well... Still have a modified(Trick Flow, heads, cam, etc)5.0 in a T-Bird I beat the snot out of at the strip and have no qualms about it...
In my Big Block Chev boat engines using the starting motor when adjusting the valves the oil would be coming out of the rockers almost instantly at 65*f using straight 40.
 
Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: AEHaas
There are studies that show it takes up to 90 seconds to get oil to the top end at 75F. Hence my constant battle to get the start up viscosity down, even at 75F. It is a function of viscosity and the bypass spring at the oil filter.

aehaas

This is likely true of a pushrod engine that oil the rocker arms from oil flow up the push rods(of course this includes most modern OHV engines like the now old Ford 5.0, 460, SB/BB Chevys etc)... The engines that had a oil passage in the heads and the rockers on a shaft generally get oil in less time... OHC engines usually have oil flow in just a few seconds...

Rambling on...

The hoopla about oil pumps in bypass makes no sense to me... If it's bypassing at 90psi(just a figure I pulled out of the air), that means there is still 90psi fed to the moving parts... If the bypass were not there, excessive oil pressure(maybe 120-150psi)would either blow the filter or likely damage the drive to the pump... I've seen both of these happen in engines with high pressure pumps and thick oil... I'd guess virtually all engines go into bypass when first started on a cold morning, yet you seldom see a rod or crankshaft hanging out of any of them...
There are lots of people who read articles yet don't have any real idea about what they are reading yet think they know.
 
Originally Posted By: mpvue
7:15min commute?

I think you need a bicycle.

i kinda laughed out loud at this. 7-15 mins in a car is at least 45-60 mins on a bicycle, and who would want to take a 45-60 minute bike ride every morning right after you wake up? and i can about imagine the smell you'd be walking in to work with in the summer...
 
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Originally Posted By: Jakegday
Originally Posted By: mpvue
7:15min commute?

I think you need a bicycle.

i kinda laughed out loud at this. 7-15 mins in a car is at least 45-60 mins on a bicycle, and who would want to take a 45-60 minute bike ride every morning right after you wake up? and i can about imagine the smell you'd be walking in to work with in the summer...


I drive to work in about 5-10 minutes, can bike there in 20-25. Bike commute is longer, also, to avoid the highway. Helps to have a road bike that is well fitted. I doubt I could get to work that fast on some plush cruiser bike. I average 15-18 mph on the bike. Usually hit around 30-35 on the one downhill on the way back from work.

We do have a shower in the first floor bathroom at work.

As for this bit about the OP's warmup being too short, pretty laughable. In Dallas? Yeah, real arctic weather there. I commute less than 3 miles to work and I get up to 55-60 in the process. I start the car and drive off within 10-15 seconds, slowly at first. Keep the RPM's below 2500 before the gauge gets at least 1/4 way up. And the engine is fine. My used oil analysis are posted here.

Heck in the summertime, it only takes a couple of minutes to get up to full operating temperature, even at 7am...
 
Also Keep in mind that Biking, As much fun as it is, Is not always practical.

I for one could never Bike to work, Previous injuries to myself has left one of my Ankles with only 30% left of its original movement.

Walking, If im close enough I can do. I walk daily around 4 miles for excercise. It is Less stressful and less painful to my Ankle than biking.

However, If i had a short commute in a city type enviroment, I'd buy a moped in a heartbeat.
 
Originally Posted By: Jakegday
Originally Posted By: mpvue
7:15min commute?

I think you need a bicycle.

i kinda laughed out loud at this. 7-15 mins in a car is at least 45-60 mins on a bicycle, and who would want to take a 45-60 minute bike ride every morning right after you wake up? and i can about imagine the smell you'd be walking in to work with in the summer...


That's some fuzzy math. My commute takes about 10 minutes in my car, and about 15 if I bike. And if I bike, I can choose a route on my way home that is as long as I like. I laugh out loud when I ride over the 10 lanes of freeway that's packed with cars not moving and drivers fuming. Sometimes I go for 40 miles, and my mental health improves while those on the freeway deteriorates.

I've lost over 40 pounds since I added cycling to my transportation modes, my blood pressure is below normal, and my cholesterol is way below normal. I'm still a gearehad of the first order, but get real.

Imagine how much better of we would all be if we didn't have to spend BILLIONS and BILLIONS and BILLIONS on healthcare for those whose chronic health problems could have been prevented by simply not being lazy.
 
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Really??
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Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: AEHaas
There are studies that show it takes up to 90 seconds to get oil to the top end at 75F. Hence my constant battle to get the start up viscosity down, even at 75F. It is a function of viscosity and the bypass spring at the oil filter.

aehaas


On what engines?

Anyone who's lashed rockers with the engine running knows this isn't true. It take a few seconds.

Heck, I've primed engines (sbc/bbc)with a hand drill and it only took 10-15 seconds to get oil up to the rockers. And a hand drill doesn't spin the pump nearly as fast as an idling engine.


Furthermore, even if there isn't full oil flow for several seconds the cams are anything but dry. When doing some work on my variable valve timing gear I had the VC off after not running for at least a day. Everything was nicely coated with slippery oil everywhere. If that's as bad as 95% of "dry starts" get then there's nothing to worry about and they are anything but "dry". Rotella T was in use at the time, in case it matters to anyone.

I too have observed that it only takes a couple of seconds for HLAs to be fully up to pressure. This is even after an oil change without prefilling the filter cartridge so the oil pump has to fill that before supplying the rest of the system. In that scenario it might take 5 seconds before the HLAs are fully pressurized.

Lastly, IMO *any* warmup in Texas is more than sufficient in any season. Get in the thing and drive, no sitting and idling required. If you're a chronic short-tripper then get out on a longer trip once in a while to boil the water out of the oil. My owner's manual tells me not to idle to "warm up" and I've observed that in winter my engine will NEVER warm up unless it's under load. I've always just started driving although conservatively until up to temperature. I have 13 years and 200,000km on my current car with these habits and it's still quiet, powerful, fun, get's great fuel economy and great used oil analysis. It's a heck of a lot colder here than in Texas.
 
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It seems my engine is ok then.

I will keep it 5w30 unless i simply *need* to go to a Redline 5W-20 one day (which is a 5w30 kind of) and i wanted to doublecheck im not doing my engine any disfavors. Thank you for confirming, all.

Im still amazed heat is being nice to my engine, and not destroying it on 5w30 or thinner. That is was why i asked about my warm-up.

Also, its more like turn-key, let idle a few seconds, then 60-90 seconds later depending on the light, 55-65MPH for 5-10 minutes, or longer. 5w30 i will likely stick with, i can get it locally.. 5W-20 Redline just does not make all that much sense, even putting in "one quart" with the fill though that makes more sense.. ?

My engine appears to be benefitting from the thinner is better argument. It does not have monster horsepower, and it runs with a good amount of heat but appears to be perfect for a 3-weight oil/HTHS of a 30-weight oil. OHV 5.0 302 i think it is a 302.
 
Originally Posted By: 45ACP
It seems my engine is ok then.

I will keep it 5w30 unless i simply *need* to go to a Redline 5W-20 one day (which is a 5w30 kind of) and i wanted to doublecheck im not doing my engine any disfavors. Thank you for confirming, all.

Im still amazed heat is being nice to my engine, and not destroying it on 5w30 or thinner. That is was why i asked about my warm-up.

Also, its more like turn-key, let idle a few seconds, then 60-90 seconds later depending on the light, 55-65MPH for 5-10 minutes, or longer. 5w30 i will likely stick with, i can get it locally.. 5W-20 Redline just does not make all that much sense, even putting in "one quart" with the fill though that makes more sense.. ?

My engine appears to be benefitting from the thinner is better argument. It does not have monster horsepower, and it runs with a good amount of heat but appears to be perfect for a 3-weight oil/HTHS of a 30-weight oil. OHV 5.0 302 i think it is a 302.


I know that you're coming from a Dallas frame of mind (with respect to both oil "thickness" and what constitutes "cold") but most of the rest of the world wouldn't consider 5W30 "thin". It's "average" or, for many people, "thick" since so many cars are calling for 20 weights these days.

Beware that SAE grades (like '30') span a quite noticeable range of actual measured viscosity. GC is rated 0W30 but is practically a 40 weight at 100C operating temperature. Anything with "Energy Conserving" in the API starburst is on the thinner end (both viscosity and HTHS) of that particular grade. Those with smaller displacement engines calling for a 30 weight can really feel the drag from GC compared to lower visc/HTHS 30s.

You may wish to browse the VOA forum or detailed PDS information from various kinds of oil available to you to determine which ones are "thin 30s" and which ones are "thick 30s". You can then further tune what you're looking for. There are high HTHS 30 weight oils out there but I think they are all synthetic (GC, BMW 5W30, one of the Maxlife I think, and a couple of others). If you find any 30 weight listing ACEA A3 (not A1 or A5) you've found one of the thick ones.

If you're worried about "cold" flow - go syn and get a 0W or 5W. It is most likely to have better cold flow than any 5w30 conventional. (note that I said likely, not definitely). If you're worried about hot spots in your engine coking up the rings etc... again go syn as they can usually withstand extreme heat better than dino. Note again I said "usually" and I'm thinking about hotspots, not generic Texas ambient heat. Modern high quality dinos should be able to handle Texas ambient temp fine.

In my summer weather my coolant can be almost up to operating temperature in 2 minutes of mostly downhill driving to the highway. At this point I know that the oil isn't fully up to temp. If you're hitting the highway after only 60 seconds of warm up driving I would personally be a little gentle on the throttle getting up to speed (avoid full WOT and redline unless required for safety) but wouldn't think another second about hitting 60mph after 2min of Texas city driving.

I personally wouldn't go mixing widely differing brands of oil, like pouring a quart of Redline into any old dino from the auto mart. Redline is obviously a great oil, with a price to match.

Are you planning to do any used oil analysis to look for any breakdown of any kind to see if your change is working out?
 
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