My Aunt from Poland has a Chevy.

[hardcore302]

She's visiting from Poland for the second time. I've been there once. Awesome country.

She has a 2005 Chevy Matiz 0.8. Yes, 0.8. Three cylinder. Can't get out of it's own way, but great on gas and a nice ride. It's really all you need over there. They are big on getting used German BMW's from accross the border, otherwise.

She actually lives about a half mile from the German border, which is open now.

I did the "Homer Simpson" by jumping from country to country: Germany, Poland! Germany, Poland!

Anyway, my point is: Why haven't we followed the European model of small cars small engines?

I don't care fomr them personally, as I might have the two worst MPG cars within a few miles of my house, lol. But still...
Discuss!

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted By: hardcore302

Anyway, my point is: Why haven't we followed the European model of small cars small engines?

I don't care fomr them personally, as I might have the two worst MPG cars within a few miles of my house, lol. But still...
Discuss!


People don't care for them.
That would be why!!!

 

[Chris142]

Originally Posted By: hardcore302

Anyway, my point is: Why haven't we followed the European model of small cars small engines?

Because we want to have the biggest, fastest or loudest car on the block. I'm looking for a 3/4 ton pickup here in Ca. I want a small block.

One would think that in a state with the highest gas prices small blocks would be easy to find. They are not. They are rare! All I'm finding are Big Blocks

 

[hattaresguy]

Because Europe is small and a small engine like that wouldn't cut it in the vast open expanses of this country where you can cruise 80-90 all day long.

Leave NYC and head west along I80.

Oh and a Cruze probably gets better mileage anyway, and I assure you its a far better car.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: hardcore302
She has a 2005 Chevy Matiz 0.8.

You mean Daewoo.

Quote:

Anyway, my point is: Why haven't we followed the European model of small cars small engines?

Maybe it's not that big of an issue around NYC, but in most other parts of the US, trying to merge onto an interstate in a car like that would be frightening. A car with a 1.6-1.8 liter 4-cylinder engine (or a 1.4 turbo) will get very similar MPG on the hwy while making it easier to accelerate to hwy speeds.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: hardcore302


Anyway, my point is: Why haven't we followed the European model of small cars small engines?



For one thing, we are so scared of NOx that we waste all kinds of energy that we could otherwise use to make more power.

That is why a 50 mpg diesel is a gross polluter in our country, and a 12 MPG expedition is a partial zero emissions vehicle.

While people like to talk about vast expanses, let's face it, there are some VERY fast roads in Europe, and plenty of mountains.

The issue is that while over there people are taxed on displacement and fuel is very pricey because of the taxes, so people shop for smaller numbers, here, people are only able to shop for bigger is better type numbers.

That's really the main thing.

Because then instead of following road laws over here, people think they deserve to be in front, but are too afraid to pass... So they drive aggressively and meanly. No real recourse for poor driving skill.

And on top of that you have a ton of people too afraid to merge onto highways, so they just NEED hundreds of HP to get moving.

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: hardcore302


I did the "Homer Simpson" by jumping from country to country: Germany, Poland! Germany, Poland!



That was a serious "lol"

Seriously, small cars are the future...we only about five years away from that anyways..


I just need a small Suv, and I'll be set..

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: daves87rs
I just need a small Suv, and I'll be set..

Here you go:

 

[sciphi]

Also, some European countries tax cars based on engine displacement and/or horsepower. Smaller engine/fewer HP means less tax.

Just wait for gas over $4/gallon again this summer. We'll see smaller cars start selling like umbrellas in a thunderstorm.

 

[Spazdog]

A friend in high school had a Honda Z600...actually he had an N600 and a Z600, but the Z600 ran and ran well. It was probably half the weight of a Matiz and had at least 2/3rds the horsepower.

You did not want to be on the interstate in that thing. The national speed limit was still 55mph and it was screaming at that speed.

Later on, I had a Triumph Spitfire 1500. With the overdrive off it would run 55mph at 3000 rpm. By comparison, it was relaxed. (turning the O/D switch on dropped the rpm to about 2650)

 

[Trav]

Quote:
a small engine like that wouldn't cut it in the vast open expanses of this country where you can cruise 80-90 all day long.


A Nissan Micra 1.4 can cruise at 100mph all day.

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: hardcore302


Anyway, my point is: Why haven't we followed the European model of small cars small engines?



For one thing, we are so scared of NOx that we waste all kinds of energy that we could otherwise use to make more power.

That is why a 50 mpg diesel is a gross polluter in our country, and a 12 MPG expedition is a partial zero emissions vehicle.

While people like to talk about vast expanses, let's face it, there are some VERY fast roads in Europe, and plenty of mountains.

The issue is that while over there people are taxed on displacement and fuel is very pricey because of the taxes, so people shop for smaller numbers, here, people are only able to shop for bigger is better type numbers.

That's really the main thing.

Because then instead of following road laws over here, people think they deserve to be in front, but are too afraid to pass... So they drive aggressively and meanly. No real recourse for poor driving skill.

And on top of that you have a ton of people too afraid to merge onto highways, so they just NEED hundreds of HP to get moving.


+1
I well remember back in the mid 70's being appalled by the lack of guts a North American Ford 2 liter had, must have been about 25% down on what I expected from a British or German version of a similar car.
I also think Americans like 'Lazy power' or low down Torque.
Many Europeans do not feel uncomfortable running for long periods at over 4000rpm, when they have to.
Sure a larger displacement may give the same MPG on the open road, but normally, a smaller displacement will give better MPG on short runs in an urban environment (which is how most cars are used, most of the time, in Europe).
America IS coming around. By and large, I would guess, on average, engine capacities have been reduced considerably in the last 35 years.
Remember when 3.5 liter 6's and 5+ liter V8's were the norm?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
a small engine like that wouldn't cut it in the vast open expanses of this country where you can cruise 80-90 all day long.


A Nissan Micra 1.4 can cruise at 100mph all day.

Sure, but that Matiz has a top speed of 90 mph. Comfortable cruising speed would be much less. Great around town though.

 

[hardcore302]

As soon as I got home I fell asleep for almost a day, woke up and drove my Mustang. Ahh, much better.

 

[expat]

Interesting. The Spitfire 1500 was developed FOR the American market , after U.S. emissions regs sapped the HP of the previous 1300 cc model from about 75HP down to something like 48 HP!!!

Even with the 1500 engine, the U.S. version still only had about the power of the original European 1147 cc car, that was introduced 11 years previously.

 

[PF52]

Originally Posted By: hardcore302

Anyway, my point is: Why haven't we followed the European model of small cars small engines?


Because they're not cool! Everyone here needs a 5000-lb 350-HP vehicle to sit in traffic in.

I'm not being sarcastic either. I live around the corner from an elementary school. Every day at 3:15, there is a line of giant vehicles waiting to pick up the kiddies. Big SUVs and minivans, almost exclusively. The occasional sedan stands out like a circus midget.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: hardcore302
Anyway, my point is: Why haven't we followed the European model of small cars small engines?


Actually, Europeans would love to follow US, but they just can't because they are overtaxed. Contrary to popular belief, Europeans don't choose small cars because they care about environment, or because they want future generations to have gas, they choose them because that's all they can afford.

NA hasn’t followed Europe simply because of gas affordability, that's it. Quite frankly I don’t want to follow Europe or Asia because that means driving some of the most miserable cars, leaving good cars for elite, unfortunately that is changing quickly.

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: hardcore302
Anyway, my point is: Why haven't we followed the European model of small cars small engines?


Actually, Europeans would love to follow US, but they just can't because they are overtaxed. Contrary to popular belief, Europeans don't choose small cars because they care about environment, or because they want future generations to have gas, they choose them because that's all they can afford.

NA hasn’t followed Europe simply because of gas affordability, that's it. Quite frankly I don’t want to follow Europe or Asia because that means driving some of the most miserable cars, leaving good cars for elite, unfortunately that is changing quickly.


I disagree here.
I know many people that can well afford bigger cars with bigger engines. They just don't want to see their money go that way.
Small does not always mean miserable!
Many of the 'worlds' small cars sold in NA are stripped down versions, because here, Big Is Better, and Small Is Cheap!

 

[cchase]

Originally Posted By: expat
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: hardcore302
Anyway, my point is: Why haven't we followed the European model of small cars small engines?


Actually, Europeans would love to follow US, but they just can't because they are overtaxed. Contrary to popular belief, Europeans don't choose small cars because they care about environment, or because they want future generations to have gas, they choose them because that's all they can afford.

NA hasn’t followed Europe simply because of gas affordability, that's it. Quite frankly I don’t want to follow Europe or Asia because that means driving some of the most miserable cars, leaving good cars for elite, unfortunately that is changing quickly.

They just don't want to see their money go that way.


I think his tax comment covers that fairly well.

I think the biggest issue is that many US states are the size of European countries. Small cars are torture for long trips. Short wheelbases are killers no matter how nicely equipped.

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: expat
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: hardcore302
Anyway, my point is: Why haven't we followed the European model of small cars small engines?


Actually, Europeans would love to follow US, but they just can't because they are overtaxed. Contrary to popular belief, Europeans don't choose small cars because they care about environment, or because they want future generations to have gas, they choose them because that's all they can afford.

NA hasn’t followed Europe simply because of gas affordability, that's it. Quite frankly I don’t want to follow Europe or Asia because that means driving some of the most miserable cars, leaving good cars for elite, unfortunately that is changing quickly.

They just don't want to see their money go that way.


I think his tax comment covers that fairly well.

I think the biggest issue is that many US states are the size of European countries. Small cars are torture for long trips. Short wheelbases are killers no matter how nicely equipped.


But I would guess that Americans are using there cars less and less (in the last 30 years) for long, interstate trips.
The days of piling the family into the station wagon for a summer vacation is becoming a thing of the past.

As a note.
I know a couple in Europe, they both work in Banking, they have several homes, notably one in London, England, one in the south of France. They have a late model Jaguar station wagon (Diesel) and a small Ford Ka. It's the Ka they take to the south of France! I asked about this, they said the Ka is nicer to drive when they get to their destination, easier to park, and less PRETENTIOUS! (something I had not considered)
They claim the Ka will get them down there just as quickly as the Jag, they will only use the Jag for hauling stuff.