Multi-Vis: Why run a thinner "W" rated oil than recommended?

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"IF I AM READING THE CHART CORRECTLY, there is NOT a drop in viscosity from 100*F to 212*F but actually an increase on the stated oils."

You are not reading the charts correctly, and you are using the word 'viscocity' incorectly.

Viscocity is the property of a fluid that tells one how fast the fluid moves in relation to pressure being applied. Viscocities are measured in absolute (Pascals) and Kinemetric (Poise) scales.

The weight of an oil is a range of viscocity at a particular temperature. For example a 30 Weight oil has a viscocity of 9.6 to 12.4 centiStokes at 100dC.

All oils thicken on the viscocity scales as the temperatures go down. Straight weight oils thicken a lot more than multigrade oils thicken. The Viscocity Index is a measure of how much the oil refuses to thin as it heats up. A straight weight oil generally get a VI around 100%, while a 0w30 weight oil can get a VI of 180-190. This means that the multiweight oil thickens at half (100%/190% = 54%) of the rate of the straight weight oil.

An engine designed to run down the highway with a 30W oil desires an oil with an operating viscocity of 10-20 cSt.

At startup, when the oil is not at operating temperature, the oil is INVARIABLY thicker and this is shown in the viscocity (either measurement means); however the (SAE) weight grade of that oil has not changed! only its actual viscocity!

So, if you have an engine that is designed for a 10-12 cSt oil at full operating temperature--that engine WANTS a 10-12 cSt oil at startup. Since oil technology is not currently capable of producing constant viscocity oils, you should be looking for an oil with a cST viscocity as low as possible with the constraint that this oil at full operating temperatures still fits in the 10-12 cSt range.

Currently there are 0w30 oils that have mid-50 cSt viscocities at 40dC and still have 10 cSt viscocities at 100dC. {A straight 30W oil will ahve a startup viscocity around 120 cSt at 40dC} These multi-weight oils pump through the engine faster under cold startup conditions and still protect the engine at operating temperatures.

So the reason you want the 0w30 oil when the manufacture specifies 10w30 is that YOU want your car to LAST longer then the manufacture wants your car to last!
 
It is confusing. Let me make a few clear, absolute statements.

1. All oils get thicker (increase viscosity) as they cool down. (always)
2. Multiweight oils do not get as thick when they cool down as straight weight oils.
3. Not all 30 weight oils have the same viscosity at 100C. They can vary between about 9.5 to 12.4 Cst.
5. It is possible for a 5W30 oil to be thinner at all temperatures than a 0W30 oil. Except when below about -15C.
 
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You are not reading the charts correctly, and you are using the word 'viscocity' incorectly.

Viscocity is the property of a fluid that tells one how fast the fluid moves in relation to pressure being applied.

Is Viscocity located in the US?

It's V I S C O S I T Y!

It gets spelled incorrectly as often as "definitely" and " a lot." I can't stand it. It drives me up the wall!.
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Originally posted by AmericaWestCMH
Call me stupid, but assuming you've run a xW-30 before running 0w-30, how would freeway mileage increase so dramatically? At normal operating temperature, isn't a 30 weight a 30 weight?


A 0w30 will have a lower HTHS viscosity than a 5w30 or 10w30, even though their kinematic viscosities at 100C may be the same. HTHS viscosity is a more accurate gauge of viscosity in a working engine than kinematic viscosity.
 
The numbers are demonstrative and not from a single specific oil. The purpose was to answer the question asked above.

Originally posted by Jay:
"A 0w30 will have a lower HTHS viscosity than a 5w30 or 10w30, even though their kinematic viscosities at 100C may be the same. HTHS viscosity is a more accurate gauge of viscosity in a working engine than kinematic viscosity."

I respectfully disagree with this statement. HTHS is but one of many measurements of oil. MotorCraft 20 wt. oils are thin yet show full protection under heavy loads in heavy trucks. Red Line 5w30 and 10w30 have the same HTHS of 3.8 and this is higher than many other 10w30 wt. oils.

Motor oils need to be looked at individually then matched accordingly with many criteria in mind.

Going back to the original question - a 0W- oil is never too thin at start up at 75 F. If you are concerned about start up oil thickness then the 0w30 is a better choice than a 10w30. Keep in mind that a 10w30 wt. oil of today is actually a 5w30 of the last decade as the SAE / API understood that people are stuck in their old ways of thinking.

aehaas

[ December 21, 2005, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: AEHaas ]
 
Not always Jay. An example is: GC has a HTHS of 3.5 or 3.6 while M1 5w30 is barely over 3.0. It depends on the basestocks used and the viscosity index improvers. You have to look at the actual data to know for sure. One factor is that viscosity index improvers tend to inflate the viscosity value at 212F and do much less to raise the HTHS viscosity since they tend to align themselves in that test. Another factor is that the viscosity of the base oil at 212F and its own viscosity index plays a large role on the HTHS viscosity...GC is thicker than M1 5w30 and 10w30 at 212F so that has a lot to do with its higher HTHS viscosity. None of these 3 oils used much or any VI improvers, so that isn't a factor in this case.
 
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No, you're interpretting the data wrong.
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You are not reading the charts correctly, ...
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Then somebody needs to either remove the phrase "viscosities can be related horizontially" from the verbiage accompanying the chart and/or offer a better explanation for its use than is currently there.
 
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Then somebody needs to either remove the phrase "viscosities can be related horizontially" from the verbiage accompanying the chart and/or offer a better explanation for its use than is currently there.

A straight weight oil can be related on that chart with a straight horizontal line.

A multiweight oil will see a straight horizontal line from the SEA weight to the 100dC viscosity and then a downward sloping line from the 100dC number to the 40dC number.
 
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A straight weight oil can be related on that chart with a straight horizontal line.
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It does say that, doesn't it.
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Excuse me.
 
This is reason why you want to run 0W-XX oil...Take a look at this plot which describes how long it takes for GC 0w30 to reach operating temperature (100C):

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So first 24 minutes of my drive this morning I was driving with much thicker oil then my engine was designed for...and this comute was at highway speeds which bring oil up to operating temperature faster..I can imagine how long it would take driving around the town at low speeds?

The moral of the story is that in winter time(in places with cold weather where temperatures drop to or below 32F) we should probably run one grade thinner then what manufacturer recommends...in my case I would probably be abe to get away with good 0W-20 or 5W-20 oil!
 
Winston
"5. It is possible for a 5W30 oil to be thinner at all temperatures than a 0W30 oil. Except when below about -15C."

Don't you mean -25C? Case in point; @-20C GC 0W30 has a kinematic vis' of 2609 cSt while M1 5W30 is 2225 cSt.

Peter
 
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