OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: CT8
Don't bring the city to thee country . Leave it .
Explain?
Don't bring the city to thee country . Leave it .
Explain?
Moving to the country
- Thread starter OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Buy land, build new house.
No way I would buy an old house and spend $$$$ trying to make it moder.
As I said in the OP, I love old houses, it is sort of a personal hang-up. My buddy wants me to do exactly what you've suggested but I don't like "new" houses, I have an infatuation with old ones and it is something my wife entertains (though she would prefer new as well).
I grew up in a house built in the late 1880's. Our cottage, which was my grandparents retirement home was built in the 1860's. I love the smell, the charm, the character, that an old home has. You can't build that into a new home.
I didn't say it was rational or logical, but it is "me". My grandfather had an obsession with antique boats (he had around 45 of them) for many of the same reasons. You can't have the same character in "tupperware" (as he called it) as you got in a woodie, which explained his fleet of Chris-Craft boats, many of which had modern upgrades such as a 425HP Ford V8 in one of them in particular (my favourite).
I come from a somewhat eccentric family, it is what it is.
I'm the same way,I love old houses. There's nothing I hate more than those brand new houses that look like a McCastle or a cheap apartment,and they're always crammed onto a tiny yard. Every time I've been in one I feel like I'm in an apartment.
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Buy land, build new house.
No way I would buy an old house and spend $$$$ trying to make it moder.
As I said in the OP, I love old houses, it is sort of a personal hang-up. My buddy wants me to do exactly what you've suggested but I don't like "new" houses, I have an infatuation with old ones and it is something my wife entertains (though she would prefer new as well).
I grew up in a house built in the late 1880's. Our cottage, which was my grandparents retirement home was built in the 1860's. I love the smell, the charm, the character, that an old home has. You can't build that into a new home.
I didn't say it was rational or logical, but it is "me". My grandfather had an obsession with antique boats (he had around 45 of them) for many of the same reasons. You can't have the same character in "tupperware" (as he called it) as you got in a woodie, which explained his fleet of Chris-Craft boats, many of which had modern upgrades such as a 425HP Ford V8 in one of them in particular (my favourite).
I come from a somewhat eccentric family, it is what it is.
I'm the same way,I love old houses. There's nothing I hate more than those brand new houses that look like a McCastle or a cheap apartment,and they're always crammed onto a tiny yard. Every time I've been in one I feel like I'm in an apartment.
I think you have a really great plan. My lady and I like older homes too. We saw some really nice ones in western North Carolina. A number of them covered in stone which were absolutely beautiful.
You can do some very nice upgrades to your new farm house that would totally make it what you need it to be. One thought I would like especially in your location... A woodstove
To heat and cook with in case you lose power. My mom made some great homemade biscuits and chili on ours when we lost power when I was a kid.
You can do some very nice upgrades to your new farm house that would totally make it what you need it to be. One thought I would like especially in your location... A woodstove
To heat and cook with in case you lose power. My mom made some great homemade biscuits and chili on ours when we lost power when I was a kid.
I just did the same thing. I gave up a very nice home in Houston Tx. that my wife and had built in '98. In the 17 years since it was built, Houston has changed: murders daily, increasing population and industrial pollution ( refineries, container ports, 2 airports and construction EVERYWHERE etc.
Retiring in small town Arizona has been a revelation. The high school graduating class was less than 100 students. I can't remember the last time I bought gas - my FX4 hasn't been driven 300 miles since moving here in May. The wife's truck is the same thing. My Mazdaspeed 3 might have covered 150 miles since it arrived.
We live in a turn of the century house ( 1905 to 1910, somewhere in there) that has been rehabbed. The house is wood construction so it's always needing something but that gives me something to do.
The sound of jet planes has been replaced by birds chirping, Houston's filthy high humidity environment has been replaced with dry high desert climate with crystal clear sky.
So yes, moving out of the city has been the way to go for us. We love it.
Retiring in small town Arizona has been a revelation. The high school graduating class was less than 100 students. I can't remember the last time I bought gas - my FX4 hasn't been driven 300 miles since moving here in May. The wife's truck is the same thing. My Mazdaspeed 3 might have covered 150 miles since it arrived.
We live in a turn of the century house ( 1905 to 1910, somewhere in there) that has been rehabbed. The house is wood construction so it's always needing something but that gives me something to do.
The sound of jet planes has been replaced by birds chirping, Houston's filthy high humidity environment has been replaced with dry high desert climate with crystal clear sky.
So yes, moving out of the city has been the way to go for us. We love it.
I'm really confused
The flavor I get from this thread is that where you all once lived was fine, then "it" gentrified/went downhill, then all of a sudden "the city" became this scary no good place that is unwholesome for children and requires a gun?
How old are all of you? (neither a good nor bad thing)
Back OT...
Factor in extra heating costs, possible infrastructure limitations
Don't forget as a BITOG'er, you'll never live down the WHERE'S YOUR SNOW TIRES? and "Should I full syn 0w20 and go overboard with battery and oil heaters, because START UP WEAR IN THE COLD!
The flavor I get from this thread is that where you all once lived was fine, then "it" gentrified/went downhill, then all of a sudden "the city" became this scary no good place that is unwholesome for children and requires a gun?
How old are all of you? (neither a good nor bad thing)
Back OT...
Factor in extra heating costs, possible infrastructure limitations
Don't forget as a BITOG'er, you'll never live down the WHERE'S YOUR SNOW TIRES? and "Should I full syn 0w20 and go overboard with battery and oil heaters, because START UP WEAR IN THE COLD!
My wife and I both grew up in the country, we both moved to the large city (where we met), and after we got married, moved back to the country. Our nearest neighbor is about a mile away and the county we live in only has about 3,500 people. The nearest mom-and-pop grocery store and mom-and-pop hardware store is ~8 miles away. We have no desire to ever move back to the city or even live in a small town, however, remember that police, ambulance and fire service can take a LONG time to reach your residence. When the blizzards hit during the winter, we can be snowed in for several days. We use our own tractor for a lot of the snow removal. If you love having neighbors, extreme rural life is not for you.
From what I gather on from your post, you will probably like living in a rural area, just be prepared to do things for yourself instead of relying on a municipality.
From what I gather on from your post, you will probably like living in a rural area, just be prepared to do things for yourself instead of relying on a municipality.
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Old farm house + 3500-4000SF + propane is expensive to heat vs city utilities. Have you peeked into what owneewr states is heating bills?
I can't speak to your area, but around here propane is much less expensive than city utilities.
Old farm house + 3500-4000SF + propane is expensive to heat vs city utilities. Have you peeked into what owneewr states is heating bills?
I can't speak to your area, but around here propane is much less expensive than city utilities.
I live in the country, have so most of my life. I have 26 acres and have bought houses that needed work. I do some work myself and hire others to do other work. I pick and choose the work I do. I realize working full time I need to hire people even if I wanted to do the work myself.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Insulation is all R50, updated in 2011. The house is double brick and the walls are quite thick. External walls on my house (to which these are similar) are roughly 10" thick. My concern is the windows, which are original vintage and a number of the storms are missing, which means they would need to be addressed basically immediately (before winter).
Overkill,
Is that R50 batt insulation? If it is, you'll still have leaks. It's too bad that you can't get an infrared camera and fast forward to winter months to see where are the cold areas are in the house. Unless the house is insulated with spray foam (such as Walltite), you'll get some cold areas.
I guess if your gut wants an older home and you're ready to spend the time and money to make it more comfortable for you, then go for it.
Insulation is all R50, updated in 2011. The house is double brick and the walls are quite thick. External walls on my house (to which these are similar) are roughly 10" thick. My concern is the windows, which are original vintage and a number of the storms are missing, which means they would need to be addressed basically immediately (before winter).
Overkill,
Is that R50 batt insulation? If it is, you'll still have leaks. It's too bad that you can't get an infrared camera and fast forward to winter months to see where are the cold areas are in the house. Unless the house is insulated with spray foam (such as Walltite), you'll get some cold areas.
I guess if your gut wants an older home and you're ready to spend the time and money to make it more comfortable for you, then go for it.
Originally Posted By: michaelluscher
I'm really confused
The flavor I get from this thread is that where you all once lived was fine, then "it" gentrified/went downhill, then all of a sudden "the city" became this scary no good place that is unwholesome for children and requires a gun?
How old are all of you? (neither a good nor bad thing)
First, you are misusing the word gentrification, as such is the reversal of what people here are lamenting. Gentrification is when deteriorated neighborhoods are revived when wealthy individuals/families move in, raising property values and oftentimes displacing lower income residents.
Second, I am 30 and have seen the neighborhood where I grew up go downhill to the point that I have no desire to live and raise my children there. It is not yet a horrible neighborhood but 80+% of the families that lives there while I was growing up have moved on and the neighborhood has suffered as a result.
I'm really confused
The flavor I get from this thread is that where you all once lived was fine, then "it" gentrified/went downhill, then all of a sudden "the city" became this scary no good place that is unwholesome for children and requires a gun?
How old are all of you? (neither a good nor bad thing)
First, you are misusing the word gentrification, as such is the reversal of what people here are lamenting. Gentrification is when deteriorated neighborhoods are revived when wealthy individuals/families move in, raising property values and oftentimes displacing lower income residents.
Second, I am 30 and have seen the neighborhood where I grew up go downhill to the point that I have no desire to live and raise my children there. It is not yet a horrible neighborhood but 80+% of the families that lives there while I was growing up have moved on and the neighborhood has suffered as a result.
Originally Posted By: JC1
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Insulation is all R50, updated in 2011. The house is double brick and the walls are quite thick. External walls on my house (to which these are similar) are roughly 10" thick. My concern is the windows, which are original vintage and a number of the storms are missing, which means they would need to be addressed basically immediately (before winter).
Overkill,
Is that R50 batt insulation? If it is, you'll still have leaks. It's too bad that you can't get an infrared camera and fast forward to winter months to see where are the cold areas are in the house. Unless the house is insulated with spray foam (such as Walltite), you'll get some cold areas.
I guess if your gut wants an older home and you're ready to spend the time and money to make it more comfortable for you, then go for it.
I have a FLIR E5 thermal camera, so I could help him with that if he wanted
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Insulation is all R50, updated in 2011. The house is double brick and the walls are quite thick. External walls on my house (to which these are similar) are roughly 10" thick. My concern is the windows, which are original vintage and a number of the storms are missing, which means they would need to be addressed basically immediately (before winter).
Overkill,
Is that R50 batt insulation? If it is, you'll still have leaks. It's too bad that you can't get an infrared camera and fast forward to winter months to see where are the cold areas are in the house. Unless the house is insulated with spray foam (such as Walltite), you'll get some cold areas.
I guess if your gut wants an older home and you're ready to spend the time and money to make it more comfortable for you, then go for it.
I have a FLIR E5 thermal camera, so I could help him with that if he wanted
Go for it! You both love the house and location, and that is what is most important. Money is cheap, and if you plan on staying there for a long time it's best to stretch a bit financially. You income will increase and in a few years the mortgage will be a smaller percentage of your budget. Make some temporary budget sacrifices if necessary, as where you live is a large part of the quality of your life. Don't over-think it or you will talk yourself out of it and always regret it.
I bought a house on 25 acres in the Blue Ridge Mountains of southwestern Virginia three years ago and would never move back to NJ. Waking up to the sun rising over the mountains is priceless!
Tom NJ
I bought a house on 25 acres in the Blue Ridge Mountains of southwestern Virginia three years ago and would never move back to NJ. Waking up to the sun rising over the mountains is priceless!
Tom NJ
In many areas, demographics of the population changes for the worse and forces families to move to a better area.
I still think its better to buy land, build new house thats modern and don't need time/money spent on repairs. Tom Hanks movie The Money Pit is what happens to many that buy an old house.
I still think its better to buy land, build new house thats modern and don't need time/money spent on repairs. Tom Hanks movie The Money Pit is what happens to many that buy an old house.
Originally Posted By: JC1
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Insulation is all R50, updated in 2011. The house is double brick and the walls are quite thick. External walls on my house (to which these are similar) are roughly 10" thick. My concern is the windows, which are original vintage and a number of the storms are missing, which means they would need to be addressed basically immediately (before winter).
Overkill,
Is that R50 batt insulation? If it is, you'll still have leaks. It's too bad that you can't get an infrared camera and fast forward to winter months to see where are the cold areas are in the house. Unless the house is insulated with spray foam (such as Walltite), you'll get some cold areas.
I guess if your gut wants an older home and you're ready to spend the time and money to make it more comfortable for you, then go for it.
First off I've never seen r-50 batt insulation. When we frame wood foundations they are 2x8 and that's r-32. So either the house has some form of styrofoam on the outside and would have to have 2 layers of walls insulated.
When we built r-2000 homes we framed a 2x6 exterior wall which was r--20 then it was sealed with acoustical sealant at every wood joint,then vapour barrier.
Then we'd frame another wall from 2x4 leaving a 1" airspace which ended up being r-32. A foam exterior sheathing adds another r-5 to r-7 however once you start getting beyond r-32 the extra building cost doesn't pay off. Becomes redundant.
So r-50 would mean the insulated wall space would need to be 20 inches thick or so. Brick is a thermal bridge and not an insulator.
Regardless if properly insulated and vapour barrier is applied to the bare minimum code there won't be any drafts,so the quoted comment isn't accurate.
Blown insulation in the ceiling could easily get up to r-50 though. You just keep adding inches however it's imperative that the roof vents properly otherwise major moisture issues will present themselves.
Before entertaining the idea of purchase I suggest a home inspection service and check everything over,including the renovation plans to insure everything was done,as well as making sure all inspections passed no if deficiencies were noted were they addressed properly.
A well insulated home is great but wood needs to breathe or rot will occur. I've built r-2000 homes where the house was so airtight you could feel pressure changes when the furnace turned on,however air needs to move and fresh air needs to be introduced.
R-2000 homes ended up with serious issues as far as indoor air pollution is concerned. No one considered exactly how much fresh air needed to be introduced per heat cycle. Asthma and other breathing problems were showing the self at a higher rate in these airtight r-2000 homes when compared to conventional building.
Spend a few bucks on proper professional inspections getting an hvac guy in making sure there's enough fresh air coming in and old air pumped out.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Insulation is all R50, updated in 2011. The house is double brick and the walls are quite thick. External walls on my house (to which these are similar) are roughly 10" thick. My concern is the windows, which are original vintage and a number of the storms are missing, which means they would need to be addressed basically immediately (before winter).
Overkill,
Is that R50 batt insulation? If it is, you'll still have leaks. It's too bad that you can't get an infrared camera and fast forward to winter months to see where are the cold areas are in the house. Unless the house is insulated with spray foam (such as Walltite), you'll get some cold areas.
I guess if your gut wants an older home and you're ready to spend the time and money to make it more comfortable for you, then go for it.
First off I've never seen r-50 batt insulation. When we frame wood foundations they are 2x8 and that's r-32. So either the house has some form of styrofoam on the outside and would have to have 2 layers of walls insulated.
When we built r-2000 homes we framed a 2x6 exterior wall which was r--20 then it was sealed with acoustical sealant at every wood joint,then vapour barrier.
Then we'd frame another wall from 2x4 leaving a 1" airspace which ended up being r-32. A foam exterior sheathing adds another r-5 to r-7 however once you start getting beyond r-32 the extra building cost doesn't pay off. Becomes redundant.
So r-50 would mean the insulated wall space would need to be 20 inches thick or so. Brick is a thermal bridge and not an insulator.
Regardless if properly insulated and vapour barrier is applied to the bare minimum code there won't be any drafts,so the quoted comment isn't accurate.
Blown insulation in the ceiling could easily get up to r-50 though. You just keep adding inches however it's imperative that the roof vents properly otherwise major moisture issues will present themselves.
Before entertaining the idea of purchase I suggest a home inspection service and check everything over,including the renovation plans to insure everything was done,as well as making sure all inspections passed no if deficiencies were noted were they addressed properly.
A well insulated home is great but wood needs to breathe or rot will occur. I've built r-2000 homes where the house was so airtight you could feel pressure changes when the furnace turned on,however air needs to move and fresh air needs to be introduced.
R-2000 homes ended up with serious issues as far as indoor air pollution is concerned. No one considered exactly how much fresh air needed to be introduced per heat cycle. Asthma and other breathing problems were showing the self at a higher rate in these airtight r-2000 homes when compared to conventional building.
Spend a few bucks on proper professional inspections getting an hvac guy in making sure there's enough fresh air coming in and old air pumped out.
I love old houses too. Of course, my definition of old ranges from pre 1800's to early 1990's. Love being in the country too. There are many advantages to living in the country.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: JC1
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Insulation is all R50, updated in 2011. The house is double brick and the walls are quite thick. External walls on my house (to which these are similar) are roughly 10" thick. My concern is the windows, which are original vintage and a number of the storms are missing, which means they would need to be addressed basically immediately (before winter).
Overkill,
Is that R50 batt insulation? If it is, you'll still have leaks. It's too bad that you can't get an infrared camera and fast forward to winter months to see where are the cold areas are in the house. Unless the house is insulated with spray foam (such as Walltite), you'll get some cold areas.
I guess if your gut wants an older home and you're ready to spend the time and money to make it more comfortable for you, then go for it.
The basement has been spray foamed but I imagine the walls are indeed batt insulation but I could be wrong.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Insulation is all R50, updated in 2011. The house is double brick and the walls are quite thick. External walls on my house (to which these are similar) are roughly 10" thick. My concern is the windows, which are original vintage and a number of the storms are missing, which means they would need to be addressed basically immediately (before winter).
Overkill,
Is that R50 batt insulation? If it is, you'll still have leaks. It's too bad that you can't get an infrared camera and fast forward to winter months to see where are the cold areas are in the house. Unless the house is insulated with spray foam (such as Walltite), you'll get some cold areas.
I guess if your gut wants an older home and you're ready to spend the time and money to make it more comfortable for you, then go for it.
The basement has been spray foamed but I imagine the walls are indeed batt insulation but I could be wrong.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Buy land, build new house.
No way I would buy an old house and spend $$$$ trying to make it moder.
As I said in the OP, I love old houses, it is sort of a personal hang-up. My buddy wants me to do exactly what you've suggested but I don't like "new" houses, I have an infatuation with old ones and it is something my wife entertains (though she would prefer new as well).
I grew up in a house built in the late 1880's. Our cottage, which was my grandparents retirement home was built in the 1860's. I love the smell, the charm, the character, that an old home has. You can't build that into a new home.
I didn't say it was rational or logical, but it is "me". My grandfather had an obsession with antique boats (he had around 45 of them) for many of the same reasons. You can't have the same character in "tupperware" (as he called it) as you got in a woodie, which explained his fleet of Chris-Craft boats, many of which had modern upgrades such as a 425HP Ford V8 in one of them in particular (my favourite).
I come from a somewhat eccentric family, it is what it is.
Good for you. There are plenty of older places that are absolutely solid and with a little work can be quite good. Remember that in 10-20 years, a "new" house can be outdated anyway, obsolete in multiple ways, and many of the design elements questionable. IOW, on the same page as a far older home, only probably a lot fewer design attributes that have charm and character.
Id never have my kids bussed to school, so that keeps us in walking districts, which is what I prefer anyway. That means smaller suburban towns - new more planned towns are IMO undesirable and ugly modern classic cookie cutter designs, but the classic inner-ring towns with thriving downtowns are the place to be (to me personally). We've always had at least one other home out in the country/beach/etc., but Id hate to waste my life away commuting when there are so many other great things to do.
But that said up in Ontario there are some really great old properties and farms up on the escarpment, Ive been in a number of wonderful old brick farm homes from the 1800s.
So I guess your considerations need to be:
-Quality of school districts
-Is bussing an issue to you?
-How much longer of a commute and the effect on free time/QOL/health
-Taxes (likely relate to the first bullet though)
-Healthcare and quick accessibility to other resources
If your neighborhood is going down the tubes, its a consideration for getting out/going somewhere else. I suspect that with the real estate prices in Canada, its a worse situation that drives conversion of homes to multiplexes and things which become more affordable to riffraff. Not sure if you have "affordable housing" mandates in Canada, but they always cause issues.
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Buy land, build new house.
No way I would buy an old house and spend $$$$ trying to make it moder.
As I said in the OP, I love old houses, it is sort of a personal hang-up. My buddy wants me to do exactly what you've suggested but I don't like "new" houses, I have an infatuation with old ones and it is something my wife entertains (though she would prefer new as well).
I grew up in a house built in the late 1880's. Our cottage, which was my grandparents retirement home was built in the 1860's. I love the smell, the charm, the character, that an old home has. You can't build that into a new home.
I didn't say it was rational or logical, but it is "me". My grandfather had an obsession with antique boats (he had around 45 of them) for many of the same reasons. You can't have the same character in "tupperware" (as he called it) as you got in a woodie, which explained his fleet of Chris-Craft boats, many of which had modern upgrades such as a 425HP Ford V8 in one of them in particular (my favourite).
I come from a somewhat eccentric family, it is what it is.
Good for you. There are plenty of older places that are absolutely solid and with a little work can be quite good. Remember that in 10-20 years, a "new" house can be outdated anyway, obsolete in multiple ways, and many of the design elements questionable. IOW, on the same page as a far older home, only probably a lot fewer design attributes that have charm and character.
Id never have my kids bussed to school, so that keeps us in walking districts, which is what I prefer anyway. That means smaller suburban towns - new more planned towns are IMO undesirable and ugly modern classic cookie cutter designs, but the classic inner-ring towns with thriving downtowns are the place to be (to me personally). We've always had at least one other home out in the country/beach/etc., but Id hate to waste my life away commuting when there are so many other great things to do.
But that said up in Ontario there are some really great old properties and farms up on the escarpment, Ive been in a number of wonderful old brick farm homes from the 1800s.
So I guess your considerations need to be:
-Quality of school districts
-Is bussing an issue to you?
-How much longer of a commute and the effect on free time/QOL/health
-Taxes (likely relate to the first bullet though)
-Healthcare and quick accessibility to other resources
If your neighborhood is going down the tubes, its a consideration for getting out/going somewhere else. I suspect that with the real estate prices in Canada, its a worse situation that drives conversion of homes to multiplexes and things which become more affordable to riffraff. Not sure if you have "affordable housing" mandates in Canada, but they always cause issues.
Older homes from the 40s and older tend to use very wide baseboards and multi-layer trims. Crown moulds in most rooms. Plaster and lathe designs. I'd much rather fix up an older home than build new,cost dependent of course.
Older homes have character and style,not like today's cookie cutter models. Almost like they've got a soul.
Kinda like comparing a 70 mustang fastback big block or a Torino with a 429 vs a mustang 2 from the 70s or a t-bird from the 60s vs one from the 80s.
K maybe that comparison isn't exactly the same but anyone with a lick of sense understands my point.
Putting money into a classic car/home is a labour of love and the property becomes intimately yours.
Catch my drift.
Older homes have character and style,not like today's cookie cutter models. Almost like they've got a soul.
Kinda like comparing a 70 mustang fastback big block or a Torino with a 429 vs a mustang 2 from the 70s or a t-bird from the 60s vs one from the 80s.
K maybe that comparison isn't exactly the same but anyone with a lick of sense understands my point.
Putting money into a classic car/home is a labour of love and the property becomes intimately yours.
Catch my drift.
Resale is the thing. I've never made any better than average gains on property because what I like does not appeal to the average family with kids. I'm in an old house that I thought I would fix up, but haven't. My carpentry work looks like [censored] and id ratherwrench on cars. We got it for the ocean view and decided that the house was bearable. So its an oddball property that won't appeal to the masses. We've always chosen something with a view over the house itself.
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