The only claimed difference I can find between motorcycle specific oil and HDEO is the motorcycle oil contains rust inhibitors and anti-foaming agents. I thought oil itself was a rust inhibitor. Is there any real value to these additives?
Motorcycle specific oil
- Thread starter SlipperyPete
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Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
The only claimed difference I can find between motorcycle specific oil and HDEO is the motorcycle oil contains rust inhibitors and anti-foaming agents. I thought oil itself was a rust inhibitor. Is there any real value to these additives?
Isn't oil itself a rust inhibitor?
As far as anti foaming agents I've never had rotella foam in my shared sump bikes.
Dedicated bike oils are a rip off. Rotella meets JASO its just not advertised. I use it in all my bikes except my Harley and once I'm through my stash I'll be using it in my Harley too.
Don't believe the hype
The only claimed difference I can find between motorcycle specific oil and HDEO is the motorcycle oil contains rust inhibitors and anti-foaming agents. I thought oil itself was a rust inhibitor. Is there any real value to these additives?
Isn't oil itself a rust inhibitor?
As far as anti foaming agents I've never had rotella foam in my shared sump bikes.
Dedicated bike oils are a rip off. Rotella meets JASO its just not advertised. I use it in all my bikes except my Harley and once I'm through my stash I'll be using it in my Harley too.
Don't believe the hype
The motorcycle specifics are usually more money, and don't provide anything better IMO in the real world.
Originally Posted By: BillyTheKid
The motorcycle specifics are usually more money, and don't provide anything better IMO in the real world.
In my shared sump bikes the bike specific 10w-40s sheared so quick the top ends on my Hondas were insane noisy after 1000 miles and shifting was notchy. With rotella they go 3000 miles before those issues present themselves.
The motorcycle specifics are usually more money, and don't provide anything better IMO in the real world.
In my shared sump bikes the bike specific 10w-40s sheared so quick the top ends on my Hondas were insane noisy after 1000 miles and shifting was notchy. With rotella they go 3000 miles before those issues present themselves.
Originally Posted By: ddtmoto
....the T6 5w40 shears soon after 1k miles in my world. The T5 was great, then they had to change it...dang epa
The t-6 isn't as durable at the conventional 15w40. I buy it by the 5 gallon pail. I don't bother with syns in my shared sump bikes. No need since they are water cooled. My Harley gets rotella 15w40 in the primary,and I change it when it changes colour,the transmission has shockproof which Harley should ship the bikes with. It's the only fluid that made any difference in my 6 speed.
I'm using motul in the engine right now but once its gone ill be using RP auto 20w-50 and once that's gone it will be conventional rotella.
....the T6 5w40 shears soon after 1k miles in my world. The T5 was great, then they had to change it...dang epa
The t-6 isn't as durable at the conventional 15w40. I buy it by the 5 gallon pail. I don't bother with syns in my shared sump bikes. No need since they are water cooled. My Harley gets rotella 15w40 in the primary,and I change it when it changes colour,the transmission has shockproof which Harley should ship the bikes with. It's the only fluid that made any difference in my 6 speed.
I'm using motul in the engine right now but once its gone ill be using RP auto 20w-50 and once that's gone it will be conventional rotella.
Heck, I don't even think I get to 1000 miles per season with the little riding I do, and I change it the beginning of every season. I don't think I would push it more than 1000-1500 in my set-up anyway. Been using the Rotella T 15-40 last few years, but am going to try the Valvoline VR 20-50 this coming season to see how that goes.
Originally Posted By: BillyTheKid
Heck, I don't even think I get to 1000 miles per season with the little riding I do, and I change it the beginning of every season. I don't think I would push it more than 1000-1500 in my set-up anyway. Been using the Rotella T 15-40 last few years, but am going to try the Valvoline VR 20-50 this coming season to see how that goes.
I've read good things about the VR-1 oil. I think you'll be happy with it but I think it's high in moly and valvolines website says its not suitable for a shared sump bike.
I only drive my car when its raining in the sommer. My bikes get 20000kms spread between all 4.
I love to ride. I've taught my dog to ride on the rear seat of my Harley. He puts his paws on my shoulders and holds on with his dew claws.
Heck, I don't even think I get to 1000 miles per season with the little riding I do, and I change it the beginning of every season. I don't think I would push it more than 1000-1500 in my set-up anyway. Been using the Rotella T 15-40 last few years, but am going to try the Valvoline VR 20-50 this coming season to see how that goes.
I've read good things about the VR-1 oil. I think you'll be happy with it but I think it's high in moly and valvolines website says its not suitable for a shared sump bike.
I only drive my car when its raining in the sommer. My bikes get 20000kms spread between all 4.
I love to ride. I've taught my dog to ride on the rear seat of my Harley. He puts his paws on my shoulders and holds on with his dew claws.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
BillyTheKid said:
Quote:
I'm using motul in the engine right now but once its gone ill be using RP auto 20w-50 and once that's gone it will be conventional rotella.
You're gonna run Rotella in your S&S Engine on your Harley? I would like to see a used oil analysis on the Rotella after you've run it in your engine...let's say 5000 miles on the oil, which is a normal OCI for newer Harley's...
My 2011 Limited currently has Redline 20w-50 in the engine and the 2013 Tri Glide has Amsoil 20w-50 in the engine. Both bikes have Amsoil Severe Gear 75-110w in the transmission and Schaffers Supreme 7000 in the primary. I have had the VR-1 in the 2011 engine with no issues..May try the standard Amsoil 20w-50 engine oil on next change. It's way too hot during the summer here in Texas to run 15w40 engine oil in a Harley..
I'm using motul in the engine right now but once its gone ill be using RP auto 20w-50 and once that's gone it will be conventional rotella.
You're gonna run Rotella in your S&S Engine on your Harley? I would like to see a used oil analysis on the Rotella after you've run it in your engine...let's say 5000 miles on the oil, which is a normal OCI for newer Harley's...
My 2011 Limited currently has Redline 20w-50 in the engine and the 2013 Tri Glide has Amsoil 20w-50 in the engine. Both bikes have Amsoil Severe Gear 75-110w in the transmission and Schaffers Supreme 7000 in the primary. I have had the VR-1 in the 2011 engine with no issues..May try the standard Amsoil 20w-50 engine oil on next change. It's way too hot during the summer here in Texas to run 15w40 engine oil in a Harley..
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Quote:
The only claimed difference I can find between motorcycle specific oil and HDEO is the motorcycle oil contains rust inhibitors and anti-foaming agents. I thought oil itself was a rust inhibitor. Is there any real value to these additives?
not necessarily true.. you have to look at the Data sheets for each specific oil.
A quick example is Amsoil 20-w50 Engine oil TBN is 12.1 and the Motorcycle 20w-50 is 11.1 and the VIS is different 18.9 vs 20.4
And yes, Motorcycle specific oil is more expensive..
The only claimed difference I can find between motorcycle specific oil and HDEO is the motorcycle oil contains rust inhibitors and anti-foaming agents. I thought oil itself was a rust inhibitor. Is there any real value to these additives?
not necessarily true.. you have to look at the Data sheets for each specific oil.
A quick example is Amsoil 20-w50 Engine oil TBN is 12.1 and the Motorcycle 20w-50 is 11.1 and the VIS is different 18.9 vs 20.4
And yes, Motorcycle specific oil is more expensive..
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Can you imagine what they would charge for "motorcycle oils" if they had to be API certified?.,,,
Originally Posted By: rossn2
You're gonna run Rotella in your S&S Engine on your Harley? I would like to see a used oil analysis on the Rotella after you've run it in your engine...let's say 5000 miles on the oil, which is a normal OCI for newer Harley's...
yeah that would be so insane to run Shell Rotella T 15w40 in a 4stroke V-twin compared to say oh a cummins v8 diesel that generates 600 ft/lbs more torque found in a peterbuilt or mac semitruck that has just pulled 120,000lbs up the hill into phoenix in 110F heat and both of the turbos are hitting the wastegate dump (that are also cooled by the oil).
excuse me, i have to go roll on the floor with laughter for a while.
steve
p.s. if it wasnt for HDEOs you would *NOT* eat. period.
You're gonna run Rotella in your S&S Engine on your Harley? I would like to see a used oil analysis on the Rotella after you've run it in your engine...let's say 5000 miles on the oil, which is a normal OCI for newer Harley's...
yeah that would be so insane to run Shell Rotella T 15w40 in a 4stroke V-twin compared to say oh a cummins v8 diesel that generates 600 ft/lbs more torque found in a peterbuilt or mac semitruck that has just pulled 120,000lbs up the hill into phoenix in 110F heat and both of the turbos are hitting the wastegate dump (that are also cooled by the oil).
excuse me, i have to go roll on the floor with laughter for a while.
steve
p.s. if it wasnt for HDEOs you would *NOT* eat. period.
Originally Posted By: rossn2
Quote:
I'm using motul in the engine right now but once its gone ill be using RP auto 20w-50 and once that's gone it will be conventional rotella.
You're gonna run Rotella in your S&S Engine on your Harley? I would like to see a used oil analysis on the Rotella after you've run it in your engine...let's say 5000 miles on the oil, which is a normal OCI for newer Harley's...
My 2011 Limited currently has Redline 20w-50 in the engine and the 2013 Tri Glide has Amsoil 20w-50 in the engine. Both bikes have Amsoil Severe Gear 75-110w in the transmission and Schaffers Supreme 7000 in the primary. I have had the VR-1 in the 2011 engine with no issues..May try the standard Amsoil 20w-50 engine oil on next change. It's way too hot during the summer here in Texas to run 15w40 engine oil in a Harley..
Why not? Common 50 grades shear out of grade quickly and end up a 40 grade anyway. Rotella will likely retain its viscosity longer.
I'll run it this spring for 5000 miles this spring just to prove that its fine. Engine had 6000 miles on it since I went bigger so wear metals should be flushed by now.
Anyone want to kick in for the analysis. I'll donate my bike as the test mule. This testing can prove to anyone with a twin cam Harley that there is no need for over-priced v-twin specific oils.
I ran half a can of MOS2 in the last sump load so what I will do is run rotella for 500 steady highway miles to wash out anything inside the engine then re-fill with rotella. I'll start a thread on it noting any operational differences.
I have a 10 row jagg oil cooler and a pair of head fans that a member in the Harley forum I'm in built so I'm certain that the oil will be just fine.
And it's only 1 grade thinner. The TC oil pumps are high volume/low pressure so I'll benefit with more volume of oil at any given time.
Any Harley owners that want to help out with the uoa with tbn can just pay blackstone,I'll send the oil.
Pm if interested
Quote:
I'm using motul in the engine right now but once its gone ill be using RP auto 20w-50 and once that's gone it will be conventional rotella.
You're gonna run Rotella in your S&S Engine on your Harley? I would like to see a used oil analysis on the Rotella after you've run it in your engine...let's say 5000 miles on the oil, which is a normal OCI for newer Harley's...
My 2011 Limited currently has Redline 20w-50 in the engine and the 2013 Tri Glide has Amsoil 20w-50 in the engine. Both bikes have Amsoil Severe Gear 75-110w in the transmission and Schaffers Supreme 7000 in the primary. I have had the VR-1 in the 2011 engine with no issues..May try the standard Amsoil 20w-50 engine oil on next change. It's way too hot during the summer here in Texas to run 15w40 engine oil in a Harley..
Why not? Common 50 grades shear out of grade quickly and end up a 40 grade anyway. Rotella will likely retain its viscosity longer.
I'll run it this spring for 5000 miles this spring just to prove that its fine. Engine had 6000 miles on it since I went bigger so wear metals should be flushed by now.
Anyone want to kick in for the analysis. I'll donate my bike as the test mule. This testing can prove to anyone with a twin cam Harley that there is no need for over-priced v-twin specific oils.
I ran half a can of MOS2 in the last sump load so what I will do is run rotella for 500 steady highway miles to wash out anything inside the engine then re-fill with rotella. I'll start a thread on it noting any operational differences.
I have a 10 row jagg oil cooler and a pair of head fans that a member in the Harley forum I'm in built so I'm certain that the oil will be just fine.
And it's only 1 grade thinner. The TC oil pumps are high volume/low pressure so I'll benefit with more volume of oil at any given time.
Any Harley owners that want to help out with the uoa with tbn can just pay blackstone,I'll send the oil.
Pm if interested
clevy,
dont take this personal.
technically unless you can get every drop of current oil out, its not really a *pure* test of just SRT.
however, it would be a test of common oil change practices.
and this is NOT what i do for my tests.
for my tests i drain my bike to the utmost last drop i can get out.
then i run what i call a flush fill. of the exact oil i am going to test. for the same period of time.
dump that till the last drop is out.
and only then do put in the oil that gets tested.
granted i dont know if this gets every drop of the different oil out, but it sure is diluted to the point that blackstoners cant tell its not pure.
and since this is the method i started with back in '01, its the method i still stick with.
steve
dont take this personal.
technically unless you can get every drop of current oil out, its not really a *pure* test of just SRT.
however, it would be a test of common oil change practices.
and this is NOT what i do for my tests.
for my tests i drain my bike to the utmost last drop i can get out.
then i run what i call a flush fill. of the exact oil i am going to test. for the same period of time.
dump that till the last drop is out.
and only then do put in the oil that gets tested.
granted i dont know if this gets every drop of the different oil out, but it sure is diluted to the point that blackstoners cant tell its not pure.
and since this is the method i started with back in '01, its the method i still stick with.
steve
I was under the impression that the specific motorcycle oils, namely V-Twin marketed ones such as Mobil 1 V-Twin contain much more ZDDP than a comparable auto/diesel oil. I would think that higher levels of ZDDP would be beneficial to an air cooled Harley engine.
I run Redline V-Twin oil in both my Twin Cam Harleys as well as their primary and trans fluids with very satisfying results, for the record.
I run Redline V-Twin oil in both my Twin Cam Harleys as well as their primary and trans fluids with very satisfying results, for the record.
Originally Posted By: sunruh
clevy,
dont take this personal.
technically unless you can get every drop of current oil out, its not really a *pure* test of just SRT.
however, it would be a test of common oil change practices.
and this is NOT what i do for my tests.
for my tests i drain my bike to the utmost last drop i can get out.
then i run what i call a flush fill. of the exact oil i am going to test. for the same period of time.
dump that till the last drop is out.
and only then do put in the oil that gets tested.
granted i dont know if this gets every drop of the different oil out, but it sure is diluted to the point that blackstoners cant tell its not pure.
and since this is the method i started with back in '01, its the method i still stick with.
steve
So if I wash the oil out twice with rotella that should get me close enough shouldn't it?
I just want to see if wear is in any way affected.
I might be opening myself up here to a mess.
I'd have to test the rotella run,then test each consecutive run to establish trends and such.
Dunno if this will be worth the hassle.
I'm going to run it in the spring just to satisfy myself and my own curiosity.
clevy,
dont take this personal.
technically unless you can get every drop of current oil out, its not really a *pure* test of just SRT.
however, it would be a test of common oil change practices.
and this is NOT what i do for my tests.
for my tests i drain my bike to the utmost last drop i can get out.
then i run what i call a flush fill. of the exact oil i am going to test. for the same period of time.
dump that till the last drop is out.
and only then do put in the oil that gets tested.
granted i dont know if this gets every drop of the different oil out, but it sure is diluted to the point that blackstoners cant tell its not pure.
and since this is the method i started with back in '01, its the method i still stick with.
steve
So if I wash the oil out twice with rotella that should get me close enough shouldn't it?
I just want to see if wear is in any way affected.
I might be opening myself up here to a mess.
I'd have to test the rotella run,then test each consecutive run to establish trends and such.
Dunno if this will be worth the hassle.
I'm going to run it in the spring just to satisfy myself and my own curiosity.
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
I was under the impression that the specific motorcycle oils, namely V-Twin marketed ones such as Mobil 1 V-Twin contain much more ZDDP than a comparable auto/diesel oil. I would think that higher levels of ZDDP would be beneficial to an air cooled Harley engine.
I run Redline V-Twin oil in both my Twin Cam Harleys as well as their primary and trans fluids with very satisfying results, for the record.
Your right. They have elevated zddp levels because they don't use friction modifiers due to the possibility of a shared sump as most bikes are.
Harley's twin cams don't share fluids so an automotive oil is fine.
I was under the impression that the specific motorcycle oils, namely V-Twin marketed ones such as Mobil 1 V-Twin contain much more ZDDP than a comparable auto/diesel oil. I would think that higher levels of ZDDP would be beneficial to an air cooled Harley engine.
I run Redline V-Twin oil in both my Twin Cam Harleys as well as their primary and trans fluids with very satisfying results, for the record.
Your right. They have elevated zddp levels because they don't use friction modifiers due to the possibility of a shared sump as most bikes are.
Harley's twin cams don't share fluids so an automotive oil is fine.
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
I was under the impression that the specific motorcycle oils, namely V-Twin marketed ones such as Mobil 1 V-Twin contain much more ZDDP than a comparable auto/diesel oil. I would think that higher levels of ZDDP would be beneficial to an air cooled Harley engine.
I run Redline V-Twin oil in both my Twin Cam Harleys as well as their primary and trans fluids with very satisfying results, for the record.
Some of the best Twin Cam used oil analysis on here were obtained with plain old Dino Valvoline VR1 and Kendall GT1 20w50.
I was under the impression that the specific motorcycle oils, namely V-Twin marketed ones such as Mobil 1 V-Twin contain much more ZDDP than a comparable auto/diesel oil. I would think that higher levels of ZDDP would be beneficial to an air cooled Harley engine.
I run Redline V-Twin oil in both my Twin Cam Harleys as well as their primary and trans fluids with very satisfying results, for the record.
Some of the best Twin Cam used oil analysis on here were obtained with plain old Dino Valvoline VR1 and Kendall GT1 20w50.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
So if I wash the oil out twice with rotella that should get me close enough shouldn't it?
I just want to see if wear is in any way affected.
I might be opening myself up here to a mess.
I'd have to test the rotella run,then test each consecutive run to establish trends and such.
Dunno if this will be worth the hassle.
I'm going to run it in the spring just to satisfy myself and my own curiosity.
yes that would work well for a more scientific study.
mess? hassle?
no no no you have it all wrong...it's an OCD!!!
So if I wash the oil out twice with rotella that should get me close enough shouldn't it?
I just want to see if wear is in any way affected.
I might be opening myself up here to a mess.
I'd have to test the rotella run,then test each consecutive run to establish trends and such.
Dunno if this will be worth the hassle.
I'm going to run it in the spring just to satisfy myself and my own curiosity.
yes that would work well for a more scientific study.
mess? hassle?
no no no you have it all wrong...it's an OCD!!!
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